Shoot a wolf...go to jail

[Beendare]

Well there is nothing the Antis would like more than to imprison hunters....for just doing what we do. In the case of Mexican wolves [that look an awful lot like coyotes from a distance];

WildEarth Guardians (WEG), an animal rights group, has filed a lawsuit against the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) challenging the DOJ’s policy against seeking criminal prosecution of individuals who accidentally kill or harm threatened or endangered animals during the legal hunting of non-listed species. In particular, WEG is using this challenge to force the federal government to prosecute hunters who accidentally kill Mexican wolves while hunting coyotes.

SCI is fighting them in court.......... against this criminal prosecution in lieu of a fine. Do we really want hunters going to jail for accidentally shooting a wolf? Ridiculous.

The link is to the SCI page outlining their fight to save hunting....doing the dirty work politically you might say. Scroll down to the wolf article.

https://firstforhunters.wordpress.com/category/animal-rights-activists-attacks/

 

[Jbehredt]

I won’t give WEG the satisfaction of an online search but I’m guessing they’re largely nuts. That said, if I accidentally shoot a wolf the list of people who ever know about it will be very very short. Certainly not telling anybody that might know anybody who knows anybody at the DOW, DOJ or WEG

 

[Beendare]

.......I’m guessing they’re largely nuts. .....

Well they are nuts with a checkbook...willing to put their money where their mouth is.

I'm happy to be a member of SCI fighting this trash.

 

[netman]

Here in Indiana you can get caught manufacturering methamphetimine and not got to jail. Deal heroin and not go to jail.
But get caught with a undersized largemouth bass the courts will issue a warrant and drop the hammer on you.
I’m not a big fan of the way the punishments are being handed out these days.
Real criminals are walking.

 

[spike camp]

The Mexican gray wolf is a subspecies of the gray wolf. Commonly referred to as "El lobo," this wolf is gray with light brown fur on its back. Its long legs and sleek body enable it to run fast. Though they once numbered in the thousands, these wolves were wiped out in the U.S. by the mid-1970s, with just a handful existing in zoos. In 1998, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, led by Jamie Rappaport Clark (now president of Defenders of Wildlife), released 11 Mexican gray wolves back into the wild in Arizona. Although their numbers have grown slowly, they remain the most endangered subspecies of wolf in the world.

 

[TheHardWay]

S.s.s.

 

[bsnedeker]

I may get a lot of hate for this...but I'm of the opinion that a hunter needs to take absolute responsibility for what they harvest. If you are hunting black bear in an area with grizzlies and you can't tell the difference you should not be pulling the trigger. If you are on a mountain goat hunt and only have a tag for a billy but can't tell a billy from a nanny you shouldn't be pulling the trigger.

I see this the same way...if you are in an area with mex. wolves and can't tell the difference between it and a coyote and you go ahead and shoot anyway then you are at fault and should be subject to the penalties of law. Anti's think hunters are trigger-happy animals that will shoot anything that moves...being opposed to laws like this just backs up their opinion. That's my 2 cents!

 

[boom]

I may get a lot of hate for this...but I'm of the opinion that a hunter needs to take absolute responsibility for what they harvest. If you are hunting black bear in an area with grizzlies and you can't tell the difference you should not be pulling the trigger. If you are on a mountain goat hunt and only have a tag for a billy but can't tell a billy from a nanny you shouldn't be pulling the trigger.

I see this the same way...if you are in an area with mex. wolves and can't tell the difference between it and a coyote and you go ahead and shoot anyway then you are at fault and should be subject to the penalties of law. Anti's think hunters are trigger-happy animals that will shoot anything that moves...being opposed to laws like this just backs up their opinion. That's my 2 cents!

i vaguely remember a flyer being handed out with a hunting license..maybe AZ? it was a brochure on how to ID a mexican wolf, and how to compare it to a more common coyote. it was very detailed. i dont shoot dogs anymore so i tossed it into the recycle bin. so it can be done.

i think proper ID is crucial to shooting an animal. take that 50" minimum on that AK moose. i probably will never ever do that hunt because how the EFF to you determine 50" in the field? i would be too stressed out. no thanks.

i would love to see a mex wolf someday. maybe i have

 

[boom]

i remember an episode of Bowhunter TV. they arrowed a GREAT moose. when it toppled over, they measured the horns. 49" or something. they couldnt pull the tape anyway to find that last 1". they got on the sat phone and called it in. very noble.

i bet he lost his bow, and paid a huge fine. i think he did the honorable thing.

 

[Gerard Marcaurele]

I may get a lot of hate for this...but I'm of the opinion that a hunter needs to take absolute responsibility for what they harvest. If you are hunting black bear in an area with grizzlies and you can't tell the difference you should not be pulling the trigger. If you are on a mountain goat hunt and only have a tag for a billy but can't tell a billy from a nanny you shouldn't be pulling the trigger.

I see this the same way...if you are in an area with mex. wolves and can't tell the difference between it and a coyote and you go ahead and shoot anyway then you are at fault and should be subject to the penalties of law. Anti's think hunters are trigger-happy animals that will shoot anything that moves...being opposed to laws like this just backs up their opinion. That's my 2 cents!

I agree with you. However, jail time for mistaken identity on an animal hardly seems logical. Stiff fines and penalties will serve the same purpose, but won’t potentially separate husbands and wives from their families for extended periods of time. Prison punishes an entire family. I can’t think of any reason why that would be necessary when a hunter makes a mistake. Now, if people willingly and knowingly poach endangered species, I can see how jail time may be necessary to re-set the poachers priorities.

 

[bsnedeker]

I agree with you. However, jail time for mistaken identity on an animal hardly seems logical. Stiff fines and penalties will serve the same purpose, but won’t potentially separate husbands and wives from their families for extended periods of time. Prison punishes an entire family. I can’t think of any reason why that would be necessary when a hunter males a mistake. Now, if people willingly and knowingly poach endangered species, I can see how jail time may be necessary to re-set the poachers priorities.

Totally get where your coming from and in a perfect world I think we could apply some logic to these types of cases...in my opinion it should be this: If you shoot a mex wolf and it REALLY is an accident, you call the DNR, report it, and get a slap on the wrist. However, if you shoot a mex wolf, don't report it, and get caught, you go to jail.

The problem with this logic, however, is that there are SO many hunters that absolutely HATE wolves and the idea of sharing the landscape with them...how many people would "accidentally" shoot a wolf if they knew it was just a slap on the wrist if they called it in? Unfortunately, I do think the laws need to take that into account and one of the best ways to do that is to have a strict penalty that includes jail time. It's not a perfect solution by any means and I feel bad for ANYONE who has to spend time in jail over an honest mistake, but the reality of the world that we live in is that ignorance can not be used as an excuse. Too many dishonest people in the world unfortunately.

 

[CorbLand]

I agree with you. However, jail time for mistaken identity on an animal hardly seems logical. Stiff fines and penalties will serve the same purpose, but won’t potentially separate husbands and wives from their families for extended periods of time. Prison punishes an entire family. I can’t think of any reason why that would be necessary when a hunter males a mistake. Now, if people willingly and knowingly poach endangered species, I can see how jail time may be necessary to re-set the poachers priorities.

I agree with you but the problem is how do you determine someones intent? Its really easy to shoot something and say that you thought it was this. Happens all the time. I lived in an area that had wolfs reintroduced, there were plenty that got shot and people claimed that they where harassing cattle, sheep, horses, thought it was this, thought it was that.

 

[boom]

Totally get where your coming from and in a perfect world I think we could apply some logic to these types of cases...in my opinion it should be this: If you shoot a mex wolf and it REALLY is an accident, you call the DNR, report it, and get a slap on the wrist. However, if you shoot a mex wolf, don't report it, and get caught, you go to jail.

.

that seems reasonable. you bury it, you just poached.

 

[boom]

clear as mud?

http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/es/wolf_difference.shtml

 

[Gerard Marcaurele]

Totally get where your coming from and in a perfect world I think we could apply some logic to these types of cases...in my opinion it should be this: If you shoot a mex wolf and it REALLY is an accident, you call the DNR, report it, and get a slap on the wrist. However, if you shoot a mex wolf, don't report it, and get caught, you go to jail.

The problem with this logic, however, is that there are SO many hunters that absolutely HATE wolves and the idea of sharing the landscape with them...how many people would "accidentally" shoot a wolf if they knew it was just a slap on the wrist if they called it in? Unfortunately, I do think the laws need to take that into account and one of the best ways to do that is to have a strict penalty that includes jail time. It's not a perfect solution by any means and I feel bad for ANYONE who has to spend time in jail over an honest mistake, but the reality of the world that we live in is that ignorance can not be used as an excuse. Too many dishonest people in the world unfortunately.

So a fine ranging in the 50,000-100,000 range wouldn’t discourage people? I’m not saying to just slap on the wrist and turn loose. 50,000 isn’t easy to come up with, and the fine can also have a caveat where the persons financial situation comes into play (the more you have, the stiffer the fine, with a minimum of 50,000).

Hit them in the pocketbook. Then, if they fail to pay, you can chunk them in jail for failure to make restitution.

 

[bsnedeker]

So a fine ranging in the 50,000-100,000 range wouldn’t discourage people? I’m not saying to just slap on the wrist and turn loose. 50,000 isn’t easy to come up with, and the fine can also have a caveat where the persons financial situation comes into play (the more you have, the stiffer the fine, with a minimum of 50,000).

Hit them in the pocketbook. Then, if they fail to pay, you can chunk them in jail for failure to make restitution.

It's a valid point, but at the end of the day they are ending up in jail if they can't afford 50K (which most people can't) so at the end of the day it works out about the same.

 

[realunlucky]

Maybe they should get the electric chair after all wolves are people too right?

I'm going to donate to sci right now this shit is ridiculous. What if it's not a true lobo but it's northern cousin is it ok to shoot an invasive sub species?

 

[Gerard Marcaurele]

It's a valid point, but at the end of the day they are ending up in jail if they can't afford 50K (which most people can't) so at the end of the day it works out about the same.

I’m no lawyer, but when a law has jail time listed specifically I would imagine it becomes much harder to avoid said jail time than a law with only fines included. My point is that folks that can not afford the 50k likely won’t even take the chance. Then the more affluent people will be dissuaded by the fact that the fine has an extremely high cap.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

SCI fights the good fight. All you guys that talk about wanting a hunting organization that fights for your rights, Look no farther then SCI

 

[CorbLand]

Maybe they should get the electric chair after all wolves are people too right?

oh dear lord...