Need help finding a load for my rifle

[maninthemaze]

Hello, I'm having a heck of a time finding a load for my new 28 Nosler. I've been chasing huge velocity swings. As an example on Tues I head to the range to shoot some loads. They are as follows

82.5 grains 3072, 3037, 3065, nr
83.5 grains 3129, 3167, 3115, nr
84 grains 3159, 3079, 3086, 3167
84.5 grains 3144, 3144, 3159, 3220
85 grains 3205, 3137, 3115, 3205

Scope rail came loose, so the targets were useless. With 10 inch groups at 400 yards.

Since the lower charge weights looked like better loads I decided to load some smaller charges and go back.

82.6 grains 3159, 3244, 3236, 3220
82.8 grains 3159, 3152, 3100, 3058

Pissed off at the results and a few sticky bolts, I called it quits and headed home. While looking things over I noticed a few issues with the bullets. It was a different box than I had been shooting. But they were the same part number, different lot number though. Either way, I took some measurements. While most of the bullets measured in the middle. I found several that were off. I'm curious if these off bullets could cause pressure and subsequently velocity swings.

Bullet #1 weighs 195 grains and measures 1.612 overall with a .880 BTO

Bullet #2 weighs 195 grains and measures 1.646 overall with a .894 BTO

Do you think this could cause velocity swings? Should I sort all the bullets and discard the ones that are way off? Contact Berger? Sorry for the long winded post. But so far everything about this rifle sucks. I should have left it the 14lb 7wsm it was. Thanks

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[maninthemaze]

Well, I just measured the throat of my rifle. Looks like .035 of the throat is gone in less than a hundred rounds. It measured 3.985 when I got it from the smith. Now it measures 4.020. I never fired more than 3 shots without letting the barrel cool down. I'll call the smith on Monday and see what his suggestions are. I hate this rifle.

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[EastMT]

How far is your chrono from the muzzle? With a big muzzle blast a buddy had his too close and it was getting variations like that. Moved it out to 15 feet or so and was consistent.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

There's a great thread on another forum where Berger explains exactly how to find your accuracy node for the vlds, pm me if you can't find it with a quick google. Your sd and es are huge, could be a neck tension issue, bad lot of powder, erratic primers, or unreliable scale. Might be worth doing a quick calibration of your electronic scale, or re-weighing the same charge multiple times on 2 or more scales. Annealing brass and neck turning should make your neck tension more uniform. Also might be your chrono, if you have a buddy with one I'd try to set them up and shoot on both simultaneously.

Some match shooters trim the meplats on their hollow points, but I believe that is to make the bcs more consistent, not to improve the muzzle velocity sd.

Good luck.

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[danmayland]

Dang man sorry to hear of your frustrations. I had the same struggles you were having. I found that 99% of my issues were with poor brass. I won't mention the manufacture but my issues were mostly inconsistent neck thickness/case thickness, inconsistent weights of brass and neck tension. Neck tension is vastly misunderstood and can be a major contributor to poor accuracy and velocity problems. Unfortunately for me the only brass I can get for my hunting gun comes from above mentioned manufacture. Thus I have carefully sort brass by weight, neck turn it all and anneal the heck out of it. That has since resolved my issues.

The inconsistencies in your bullets are concerning but not enough to cause the swings you are seeing.

I would start by weight sorting all your brass. Nosler brass has a good reputation for being quality brass and that what I run in my comp gun. It's possible that your having some neck tension issues but it also could be a number of different factors.

What powder are you using? I would bet Retumbo but I don't like assuming

I have tried every reloading method known to man for developing loads. Here is the best method I've found that gets awesome results quickly using minimal rounds and components saving rounds down your barrel.

10 Round Load Development Ladder Test

It does require a very accurate chronograph of sorts. A magneto speed will work fine.

You have to remember every barrel is different and charges that others are using may not be what your barrel likes. Usually it will get you in the general vicinity but not always. ALWAYS run a pressure test and then start fine tuning your loads. Make sure your not over or under sizing your brass. You should be bumping the shoulder back no more than .003 thou and no less than .002 thou.

There is an easy way to tell if your neck tension is off. When you shoot your rounds save the rounds that fall at your extreme. So take the fastest velocity brass and slowed velocity brass and set them aside. Write on them with a sharpie slow/fast. Then take a new bullet and slide it into the neck. If the bullets slides into the case with little to no resistance then your neck tension is "ok". If there is any resistance then you've got neck tension issues. Chances are that the faster case will have resistance. If this is the case you will have to start neck turning your brass to get consistent neck thickness.

Read the article above closely and follow it to a "T" and you should get right where you need to be.

Here is another method that is my #2 go-to for load development. It takes way more rounds tho!

http://www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html

Here is a great read:

Developing An Accurate Load

Good luck and let me know if you have any questions!!!
Dan


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[danmayland]

Also. Give some details of your rifle please. Barrel length/manufacture, stock, action, rail, scope and rings. A pic would help


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[WV Mountaineer]

I don't have a powder recommendation as I'm not familiar with that round. But, I checked Nosler's load data and they don't list loads for 195 grain bullets in the 28 nosler on their load data page. I think I'd start there. FWIW, I had this big ole post typed up of what to check. But, I think I'd double check my manual and make sure you are loading the correct weight bullet to start of with. And I'd double check my manual to ensure I was looking at the correct powder recommendation before going any farther. As the velocity's you are listing for your 15 grain bullets are are what's in line with the 175 grain load data they list. Good luck and God Bless

 

[WV Mountaineer]

I don't have a powder recommendation as I'm not familiar with that round. But, I checked Nosler's load data and they don't list loads for 195 grain bullets in the 28 nosler on their load data page. I think I'd start there. FWIW, I had this big ole post typed up of what to check. But, I think I'd double check my manual and make sure you are loading the correct weight bullet to start of with. And I'd double check my manual to ensure I was looking at the correct powder recommendation before going any farther. As the velocity's you are listing for your 195 grain bullets are are what's in line with the 175 grain load data they list. Good luck and God Bless

 

[maninthemaze]

Thanks, I never thought about the distance of the chronograph. I'm sure it was getting some muzzle blast. It was only about 10 feet away. And as far as neck tension goes. I fought that with my 7wsm. I had to use winchester brass and then neck turn to straighten up the inconsistent neck thickness. With this new Nosler brass. The thickness is pretty darn uniform. I've been using a Whidden Gunworks die set. With a wall thickness of .0165 and .284 bullet I'm using a .315 bushing in my die. This should give me .002 neck tension. If I can't get this straightened out in a few weeks. I'll start neck turning and order a few more bushings. First I'm gonna start pulling bullets and drop down the powder charge by about 3 grains and go from there. Thanks guys. Right now I'm too Pissed off to really think straight. I should have realized the chronograph was too close.

And as far as finding the load for a VLD, I've read that several times. I took me a long time to get the load right for my 7wsm. It shot the 180 Berger at 2900fps. It had an extreme spread of 20 and would consistently shoot 1/2 moa groups out to 500 yards.

Thanks again
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[danmayland]

Also I should have mentioned. The reloading methods I mentioned above are in no way "the only way" to get a load properly worked up. Everyone has "their own way" of doing things. These methods for me have produced great results.

What is your reloading experience and what equipment are you using? Dies/press. What are your components and are you checking runout?

If your relatively new to reloading and any of the terms I mentioned make you go cross eyed don't be afraid to ask. There's no such thing as a dumb question!!


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[WV Mountaineer]

I just checked Nosler's load data for the 30 Nosler and 195 grain bullet. Are you sure you aren't cross referencing load data?



Your loads are of extreme pressure with such a wide swing apparent in your chrony results.

 

[maninthemaze]

Looks like I might be neck turning again. I was hoping to avoid it with the good Nosler brass, but maybe not. And here's the gun.

It's a Stiller Tac 300 action with a 26" 8.5 twist #5 fluted Brux barrel, an EH1 Manners stock, slabbed muscle brake, Timney Calvin Elite trigger and PTG bottom metal, Vortex PST 6x24x50 FFP scope, and Seekins rings. It weighs 10lb 4oz The barreled action was done by Ryan Pierce and was throated specifically for the 195 Berger bullet.

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[danmayland]

It's probably the Vortex...



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[danmayland]

I've heard good things about Ryan's guns. I think the guy's built more 28's than any human alive!!! I'd call him asap and work it out with him. Sounds like your doing most everything right. Might just have a tight barrel that needs to be backed off.


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[maninthemaze]

It's probably the Vortex...



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Probably right about the Vortex. One of these days, when I get the kids paid off, I'll buy that Nightforce NXS I've been dreaming of.

I think I'm gonna back off to around 80 grains, move the chrono farther away and maybe turn some necks. See what that does first. And with Ryans backlog, there's no way, I could send it to him and get it back before my elk hunt.

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[danmayland]

Probably right about the Vortex. One of these days, when I get the kids paid off, I'll buy that Nightforce NXS I've been dreaming of.

I think I'm gonna back off to around 80 grains, move the chrono farther away and maybe turn some necks. See what that does first. And with Ryans backlog, there's no way, I could send it to him and get it back before my elk hunt.

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Right!!!

I hear ya man. Same boat here!! I think you've got a good plan. I can't believe how much throat erosion you've got already...that's crazy. I have to say tho it doesn't surprise me that much being a 28. They're just too overbore. That being said it's still a great caliber and one that I contemplated building over-and-over again!!

Did you say what powder your running?


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[maninthemaze]

Ok, I checked my fired brass. And I'm stumped again. The OD is .320 with a neck thickness of .016 to .0165. That should give me an opening of .288 to .287 but I can't push a bullet inside the fired brass. I mean, it's not gonna go. Makes no sense. And I'm using an RCBS neck thickness mic.

Oh yeah, I'm running VihtaVuori N570.

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[HellsCanyon]

Have you been annealing? I ran into crazy issues with necks work hardening in the Nosler brass and throwing huge velocity swings. Btw I haven't read the whole thread so apologize if that's already been suggested


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[HellsCanyon]

I've also found that the 195's live well at 3030-3075fps with the N570. Pushing them over 3100 like you and Ryan are is a recipe for throat erosion and really poor brass life.


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[maninthemaze]

I went two sizings then annealed the brass right before this load. This makes the 3rd load on the brass. I've got some more rounds loaded for tomorrow that are backed way off. I'm looking for more accuracy than speed. What good is velocity, if you can't hit what you're aiming at?

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