Reloading

[Clarktar]

I had a question about shoulder bumping.

It seems that for most, after a case has been fired in the rifle, placing that case back into the chamber and closing the bolt, the bolt will feel a little stiff, or have some pressure. This makes sense to me, as I am thinking the case "grows" some once fired.

When it comes to reloading that fired case, I have seen and read where folks will start with the smallest shell holder (#10 redding shell holder set) and then size the case. They they place the case back into the chamber and work the bolt. If the bolt is still stiff, or some pressure is felt, then the case was not worked enough, and they go to the next size shell holder (#8 in this example). They continue in this manner until the bolt has no pressure when lifting it up or down. At this point they can go down on more size and achieve a shoulder setback or bump of approximately .002.

But, what if in the beginning before any resizing is done, you place that fired case into the rifle, and the bolt opens and closes with ease with no pressure and is not stiff. Do you need to proceed with any of the shoulder bumping? Or can you just resize with a shell holder that is the most minimal size (#10 in the previous example) and proceed to reload.

Thanks.

 

[rayporter]

the case needs to be fired at least 2 times to get it stretched to fit. one firing usually is not enough. i usually shoot a case 3 times and neck size only to get it to fit.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

No need the play with the shell holders just don't screw the die all the way in at first till you get it set right then lock the set ring in place. I have an attachment for my calipers to measure on the shoulder and once it's bumped I set my die there.

 

[Muttly]

Just two different ways to skin a cat. I use the Redding shell holder set. Like to feel a bit of resistance when the bolt is about half-two thirds closed.

 

[Clarktar]

Appreciate the feedback guys. I understand that there are a couple ways to actually set the shoulder back, my question was more or less, if a fire case closes with ease in the chamber (e.g., no bolt tension or very little pressure to close) then does a person need to worry about moving the shoulder back.

Thanks,

 

[desertcj]

Appreciate the feedback guys. I understand that there are a couple ways to actually set the shoulder back, my question was more or less, if a fire case closes with ease in the chamber (e.g., no bolt tension or very little pressure to close) then does a person need to worry about moving the shoulder back.

Thanks,

No. But don't expect trouble free chambering in a dirty rifle without full length sizing. I have cases that have been loaded 3 times now without setting the shoulder back.

 

[Muttly]

If the bolt closes easily on a fired case, there is no need to size it further. Bumping the shoulder back any further just means the brass has more room to stretch on ignition. The goal is usually as little brass expansion as possible. Like a piece of wire, bend it once, has a fair bit of tensile strength, a few more times, and it will break easily.

 

[rayporter]

no you do not need to bump or proceed to bumping if there is no resistance.

first you need resistance then bump. i back the die off but you get the same result with the redding shell holders. you may not get resistance several shots.

if you always size with the shortest shell holder [factory original] you could possibly be over sizing by a lot. in other words you may never feel bolt resistance.

 

[mtmuley]

Get the tools that will allow you to measure how much you are setting the shoulder back. Relying on "feel" is foolish. With the tool, you will have an established number, and can duplicate it every time. mtmuley

 

[desertcj]

I won't argue against getting a headspace comparator, but if you know what your doing it isn't necessary.

 

[LaHunter]

With the Redding Competition Shell holders, in order to get the least amount of shoulder bump / sizing you should actually be using the shell holder with the tallest rim, not the shortest. The shorter rim will allow the brass to be pushed farther into the sizing die.

You could probably be good without re sizing after your 1st firing since you are getting no bolt resistance chambering the fired case. I agree with the above post, after the 2nd firing you will most likely feel some resistance chambering the fired case. This has been my experience anyway.

 

[HellsCanyon]

Chris, one thing about the Ackley cases with a 40* shoulder means they have very little case growth. The improved shoulder forces more of the pressure outward instead of rearward. Makes for really long brass life and less case neck growth. This is also a reason it's not surprising you can run fired brass without sizing the shoulder back. I still do it, but there are those that just necksize.

I also get 5+ firings on Ackley brass before I have to trim which is a testament to the case design.

Mike


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[Clarktar]

Thanks everyone! Mike, we should connect soon.

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[Rthur]

Get the tools that will allow you to measure how much you are setting the shoulder back. Relying on "feel" is foolish. With the tool, you will have an established number, and can duplicate it every time. mtmuley

This ^^^
These tools are inexpensive and will last a lifetime.
We owe it to our quarry to be as consistent as we can be.

R

 

[Muttly]

Yeah, it,s fine to have and use the tools, not going to say it,s a bad idea.
But as far as it being absolutely necessary to use a comparator, not so.
And that little crack about it being foolish to pay attention to what the chamber is telling you, that's a bit of a reach..

 

[rayporter]

one reason i advise getting a tool to measure and measuring is that the person asking the question does not have experience.

until you have some experience or are coached on the feel of the bolt measuring is a very good idea. and for those with experience i would ask how much do you bump? without that measurement all you know is the feel went away.

 

[desertcj]

If the bolt closes, it closes and you arent in any danger? In fact, you are on safe ground as you have extremely minimal headspace "slop". Its only if you cant close the bolt that you need to worry about setting the shoulder back. In no way is it "Foolish" to not have a headspace comparator...lol. I actually like having a tight fit with my cases when I close the bolt, that means they are in as close of alignment with the bore as they can be...

 

[hwy1strat]

Yeah, it,s fine to have and use the tools, not going to say it,s a bad idea.
But as far as it being absolutely necessary to use a comparator, not so. ..

So, how do you get consistent results every single time if you don't measure it to ensure everything is setup the same? Sure the die has a lock ring on it, but how do you know that you screwed it in to the same tightness? If you are going to go to this level of detail with reloading then it doesn't make sense to operate off of "feel". Headspace consistency can have a major effect on your group. While it might not be necessary, why even bother with all this if your aren't going to ensure everything is consistent. Also, when trying to bump a shoulder back 0.002" and something goes wrong with tool setup, you don't have a large margin of error. Now you just loaded several rounds that won't chamber and you are stuck with ammo that you have to scrap. Obviously this is an extreme but I have had it happen to me. But for $40 you can save yourself this hassle by checking the first round to make sure it's set up correctly. To each his own...

 

[Muttly]

It,s a crude method, I know, I just make up a dummy round first, see how and if it chambers, adjust accordingly.

 

[mtmuley]

Yeah, it,s fine to have and use the tools, not going to say it,s a bad idea.
But as far as it being absolutely necessary to use a comparator, not so.
And that little crack about it being foolish to pay attention to what the chamber is telling you, that's a bit of a reach..

Wasn't a crack. Handloading accurate ammunition is all about consistency. Everything the same, everytime. I'm not gonna trust "feel". Having established and repeatable numbers is accurate. mtmuley