Snow depth and Winterkill

[Osprey]

As a Non res I've been keeping a close eye on snow depth maps throughout the winter range of several of my hunting areas. At what point depth wise is the snow depth cause for concern for high winterkill? I realize factors of temperature play into this as well as if it forms a crust layer but in your experience when does it really start to take its toll?

 

[Travis Bertrand]

I'm not a biologist but I will guess when snow covers their food.

 

[Idahohillboy]

Fish and game will feed them suplimentally but expect winter kill in Idaho to be high probably in 39 thru 50

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[Idahohillboy]

Also elk do better than deer

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[Muledeerfanatic]

The deer are screwed where I am

 

[elkguide]

Fish and game will feed them suplimentally but expect winter kill in Idaho to be high probably in 39 thru 50

Just talked with F&G in Idaho and they said the are NOT feeding the herds.

Not looking good.

 

[Idahohillboy]

They are feeding them in idaho

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[freebird134]

I wish they weren't, but they are in fact feeding in idaho: Fish and Game is feeding about 20,000 big game animals this winter | Idaho Fish and Game

 

[Osprey]

From IDFG site

Feb. 6, 2017 status report

• Garden Valley/Lowman: Currently have a total of 20 active feed sites Between Garden Valley and Lowman. F&G has feed sites along the Banks/Lowman highway and is working with a private landowners to begin feeding around 295 elk and 400 deer. Department has hired a local resident to distribute feed for the winter.

• Weiser Flats: F&G is currently feeding approximately 300 elk on private land on the west side of Weiser. Private landowners are working together to maintain this operation with direction from Fish and Game.

• Weiser Cove: F&G is almost ready to activate eight deer feeding sites in the Weiser Cove area by working with private landowners to feed up to 1400 deer. F&G is organizing a volunteer group of sportsman to deliver pellets to the storage site.

• Cambridge: Fish and Game has transported elk pellets to private landowner and began feeding more than 200 elk and hiring two locals from Cambridge to distribute feed at the site. F&G is currently feeding 60 elk and we will try to push another 100 elk to the site.

• Council: Private landowner is providing feed for an elk feeding operation that he began.

• Emmett: Fish and Game is feeding feeding 600 deer and 100 elk on private land and state land and trying to address depredations. Personnel are currently working on how to feed elk separately from the deer and hiring a local from Emmett to distribute the feed to the feed sites.

 

[Osprey]

January 23, 2017 status report

There is a layer of ice under the snow in the Southeast Region and elk are having trouble pawing through it. As a result, winter feeding operations have commenced in Eastern Idaho

The Southeast region has been meeting with their Winter Feeding Advisory Committee since early December, most recently on Tuesday, January 3, 2017. The committee and department staff agreed that winter conditions are serious and that we will continue to closely monitor big game on critical winter range, but did not identify a nutritional basis to initiate any winter feeding operations.

Region staff has initiated an elk feeding operation to address a growing public safety and property depredation concern in the Highway 30, Banks Valley area south of Montpelier. Fish and Game will be feeding hay and mineral blocks to a group of 400-500 elk in an attempt to bait them away from the highway and private hay stack yards in the Dingell area. The region is also initiating an elk feeding operation north of Montpelier, near the Ranch Hand truck stop, to lure elk away from chronic and growing depredations of area farming operations. Fish and Game is also closely monitoring a similar depredation situation between Grace and Thatcher that may require a lure feeding operation to protect area hay stacks and feed lines.

Fish and Game is also monitoring an elk depredation issue outside of Blackfoot that has improved since Shoshone Bannock Tribal wildlife staff initiated an elk feeding station on the reservation boundary at lower Lincoln Cr. If necessary, Fish and Game will offer assistance to the tribes to maintain the effectiveness of their operation to control the chronic elk depredations in the Blackfoot area.

Fish and Game is coordinating winter feeding operations and any observations of private feeding activities in Caribou and Bear Lake Counties – with IDA staff (Kelly Mortensen). Unauthorized deer/elk feeding in those counties is illegal due to brucellosis risk.

 

[Osprey]

I'm sure there's other areas but it does appear ID is feeding for several reasons in the SW and SE regions of ID

 

[Osprey]

A few areas I hunt really are not looking to bad snow depth wise others look pretty bad. Its hard to get a feel for whats really going on from Indiana its currently 40 degrees and foggy here and looking at a map of color only does so much basically makes a Mule Deer hunter this far away nervous about what might be coming.

 

[mfllood3800]

To answer the original question on "how much snow is a threat".... I might add that It isn't always the depth of the snow as the only issue. For example, I went out this morning here in Utah just to check the herds and when I got out to walk, and check some tracks from this morning, I stayed on top. The snow was deep, but what had happened is the snow got warm, then it froze, then more snow on top that also melted and froze. It was an ice berg, 2 layers thick and I assume the elk will have a much more difficult time trying to get thru to the food under the double layer of freeze.

I did see remnants of hay skewed out in 2 different places with no signs of cattle in the area so I am assuming the DNR was out aiding some what. The snow pack I saw was no more than 3' on average at 6500'.

 

[Idahohillboy]

Fish and game almost always feed in my unit for the elk, the deer usually do not require it because a lot of them migrate. The winter has been so vicous the deer are going into town and climibing the snow banks and getting on top of peoples roofs.

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[Idahohillboy]

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[freebird134]

It's not just about feeding, snow increases energetic costs because it's difficult to move through and almost always tips the odds in predators favor during a chase. Crusting exacerbates these issues.

I co-authored a paper that was accepted for publication In the journal Food Webs last week that reviews all the diverse ways snow affects organisms and their interactions. The nuances of the effects are pretty incredible to think about.




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[ColoradoV]

I would say when the snow pack not storm total snow is settled to 42" at the Gunnison Airport is a good benchmark.

On Jan 20 there was 51" of settled snow....

 

[Osprey]

I would say when the snow pack not storm total snow is settled to 42" at the Gunnison Airport is a good benchmark.

On Jan 20 there was 51" of settled snow....

Thanks I realize the question has a lot of variables but the actual snow pack is what I've been watching so having others input on what they have seen as far as snow pack depth and issues with winterkill helps. I don't live in the West and have only about 6 years hunting experience out west so I haven't seen near as many winters as many others on here.

 

[Osprey]

It's not just about feeding, snow increases energetic costs because it's difficult to move through and almost always tips the odds in predators favor during a chase. Crusting exacerbates these issues.

I co-authored a paper that was accepted for publication In the journal Food Webs last week that reviews all the diverse ways snow affects organisms and their interactions. The nuances of the effects are pretty incredible to think about.

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Do you know how long Mule Deer could survive with limited to no food if they were faced with conditions such as they are seeing in the areas hit the worst? I know with whitetails when the going gets tough with food intake they generally bed up and move very little to conserve energy not sure if mule deer do the same?

 

[freebird134]

Do you know how long Mule Deer could survive with limited to no food if they were faced with conditions such as they are seeing in the areas hit the worst? ?

That's hard to predict. There have been starvation studies done on mule deer. They can go a long time without food. A study in the 70s starved does and fawns, and most (like over 80%) even out to 8-9 weeks. Another old study gave mulies tiny amounts of food in winter conditions...they lost body mass (protein) but survived 120 days.

I think you have to remember that these species have been facing hard winters for thousands and thousands of years. Evolution has shaped them with mechanisms to cope. However, as a hunter, you may not like that the outcome is a lower deer density or smaller antlers. But from a purely biological view, they can handle a freak winter now and then.

I'm not a fan of feeding: if we need to feed them, they are clearly over their carrying capacity. It blows my mind that IDFG is going to spend $600,000 to feed this winter, but I guess that's the price they pay to keep deer densities high. There is another thread right now talking about white-tailed deer and pesticides, and it makes me think about these mule deer. I like to think a freezer full of mule deer or elk is about the most natural, organic meat money can buy, but the reality is that even wilderness deer and elk are probably feeding on alfalfa pellets!