Mule Deer Crisis Article

4ester

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I dont think its as dire as some would lead you to believe.

I would agree. It’s seems to me that a bunch of the big bucks they have been chasing have been harvested, and now they are panicking. We need to base decisions on facts and not made up numbers to meet his personal agenda.


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LaHunter

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The data that WY G&F publishes indicates a pretty dire situation for the mule deer herd in western WY.
 

b0nes

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The author is also known to scout for deer with airplanes, which in my opinion makes his complaint about selling GPS coordinates fairly hypocritical. This article is written in the authors own self interest, I'm sure this guide would love to get paid to take 100 hunters into the mountains every year if he could. Drastically cut down on outfitters and guides in the area and that would be a good start.
 
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NDGuy

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I would agree. It’s seems to me that a bunch of the big bucks they have been chasing have been harvested, and now they are panicking. We need to base decisions on facts and not made up numbers to meet his personal agenda.


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Again I don't know about the author but where are your facts then? No one has posted anything but their opinion so far.
 
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I would agree. It’s seems to me that a bunch of the big bucks they have been chasing have been harvested, and now they are panicking. We need to base decisions on facts and not made up numbers to meet his personal agenda.


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I am curious what facts you are talking about and what information he made up? I am not going to scour the web at the moment but every time I run across an article on WY deer populations it is in line with what he is saying. Are you saying WY mule deer populations are not declining? I would like to use my WY deer points some day on a great hunt but every year it seams the heard falls a little more and it seams WY game manages just keep issuing tags as if nothing is happening. This is the impression I get anyway from multiple articles on what seams like a regular basis.
 
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4ester

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I am curious what facts you are talking about and what information he made up? I am not going to scour the web at the moment but every time a run across an article on WY deer populations it is in line with what he is saying. Are you saying WY mule deer populations are not declining? I would like to use my WY deer points some day on a grate hunt but every year it seams the heard falls a little more and it seams WY game manages just keep issuing tags as if nothing is happening. This is the impression I get anyway from multiple articles on what seams like a regular basis.

If you read his article you will notice that he uses very few numbers to support his agenda. I have already tried to have a informed discussion with him, and it falls apart rather quickly. He quoted buck/Doe ratios of 10% but couldn’t back it up. Our Mule Deer has a rough year last year, some call it a 100 year winter. I just would like to see the harvest numbers and deer counts for 2017 before a knee jerk reaction occurs. He has too much to gain if it changes to a limited draw area.

Early reports of good back fat going into this winter is a positive sign. If you want actual numbers, contact our local wildlife biologist Gary Fralic. He can provide you with enough information to make your head spin.


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Odell

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The selling of GPS coordinates has to be a very small handful of deer. Including that makes the whole thing sound like sour grapes. If he is so committed to the idea for the sake of the herd let him lead the way and take 50% fewer clients next year.


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fiskeri1

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I for one appreciate the sentiment and think that there has been enough recent data on this herd's health to start ringing the alarm bells, at least at a low level.

However

This all rings hollow when you offer up a solution like mandating open sights on rifles when on another page of your very own website is a long range shooting class. :rolleyes:
 

4ester

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This all rings hollow when you offer up a solution like mandating open sights on rifles when on another page of your very own website is a long range shooting class. :rolleyes:

Exactly, or blaming social media for the Mule Deer decline from your Non-Typical Outfitters Facebook page.


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Are there challenges facing the deer herds of G and H? Yes there has been an impact on migration routes and lots of deer have been hit by vehicles. Yes there are now many gas wells in prime winter range. Yes last winter was above average.
Do I think Robs article was completely off base? No there are concerns about the health of the population. But I also take his article with a grain of salt, he doesn't need or want more clients. You can charge more for a limited resource so if there were drastic tag cuts in the area it would benefit his check book and not hurt it.

As 4ester said the fat measurements are off the chart this year here in northern UT as well. Is this a result of a great year of growth in deer food or a product of having the deer herd at or above carrying capacity and now the resources aren't spread as thin?

There are so many variables to managing Western big game and everyone is constantly learning.
 
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This last winter was a bad one. No doubt about it, it affected my hunting in every spot I scouted and hunted here in Utah and up in Idaho. This thread isn't about either of those states but I am going to throw this out there. Every time something of notable significance happens, whether bad or good, people use emotions about those things to push their agendas. If the Wyoming guide in question is sincere, I have no idea. I will say it is super common for people to sway others emotions under the guise of "Doing whats right". Unfortunately usually "Whats right" is something that benefits them.
For myself I choose to accept that it was a hard winter, that it might be hard hunting, but that's okay because I love it and will continue to do so. I refuse to accept "the sky is falling" type attitudes. I hope that game managers will make decisions based on fact and science and not emotional or financial driven motives and I move on with my day.
 

wyo_gasman

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This last winter was a bad one. No doubt about it, it affected my hunting in every spot I scouted and hunted here in Utah and up in Idaho. This thread isn't about either of those states but I am going to throw this out there. Every time something of notable significance happens, whether bad or good, people use emotions about those things to push their agendas. If the Wyoming guide in question is sincere, I have no idea. I will say it is super common for people to sway others emotions under the guise of "Doing whats right". Unfortunately usually "Whats right" is something that benefits them.
For myself I choose to accept that it was a hard winter, that it might be hard hunting, but that's okay because I love it and will continue to do so. I refuse to accept "the sky is falling" type attitudes. I hope that game managers will make decisions based on fact and science and not emotional or financial driven motives and I move on with my day.

Im with you.

The Game and Fish said most of the does would abort, most of the does I’ve seen have fawns. There was a fair amount of yearling around this year too.
 

TheTone

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Complaining about long range hunting while also offering a long range shooting school is comical to me. Also any limit on outfitted hunters doesn't seem like it will have much impact on his business where he is advertising that he is currently only booking return clients and is currently booking for 2021.
 

HookUp

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Sounds like he is wishing for less competition. I'm sure he is having to work harder for deer as big game tags rise in popularity.
 
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Rob has an agenda and his article should be taken with a grain of salt. Hard to listen to a guy whine when he scouts from airplanes, pays huge finders fees to guys who can find top end bucks, and teaches long range shooting.
 
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