Just purchased the Ultra-Lite

[Beararms]

I just purchased a .50 caliber Knight Ultra-lite 209 bare primer for deer hunting during muzzleloader season here in TN. I have never shot a muzzleloader or seen one shot in person. I have been reading thread after thread for a few weeks to get as much info on them as I can. I have not been able to find many youtube videos on the ultra-lite. I hope the manual really goes into detail but will have to wait and see when it arrives.

I will be using the rifle scoped with Warne bases and burris zee rings (I have a few pairs of the rings already). For load development I will be using my 8-32 SIII but will mount a leupold on it for hunting. (have not decided on which scope)

After reading what a few on here like for bullet selection, I will start with the Lehigh CF .452 diameter 265 grains. What is the correct Sabot I should try, maybe the Harvester crushed rib or a MMP? I see there are many different models, what is recommended for the Lehigh?

I will start by trying BlackHorn 209, and it seems many prefer the Winchester W209 primers.

During load development with BH209, if I shoot say 25-50 shots, how often do I clean/swap between shots? How many shots do you usually shoot at a time? We usually will shoot from 12-5 on Sundays so there will be plenty of time for barrel cooling.

I read where a few on here do something with JB paste, should I do this before I shoot it?

Thanks!

 

[jm1607]

I think Sabotloader was using the MMP HPH-24 sabots with those bullets. You could just run the 275gr bloodlines that come with sabots (it's all I've used to date). They work extremely well. Basically the same bullet as the 265gr.. I'm about to move up to 300gr bloodlines personally (as long as they are as accurate as the 275s)..

I've only used Federal 209s but I'm sure the Winchesters are fine. I've never had one misfire.

Once you get used to shooting your ultralite and get it sighted in, I would try groups with 100gr BH209, 110gr BH209, and 120gr BH209 @ 100 yards and see what groups better. If there is no difference the more the merrier IMO..

You'll notice the sabot starts to get really tough/tight to push down your barrel at a point, for me it's at about 16-20 shots or so? That's when you want to clean it. And don't use "muzzleloader cleaner", use standard rifle cleaner with BH209. I've never used JB Paste so I can't comment. After you clean it shoots a couple blank primers to make sure there isn't any moisture in the breech plug.

What I've noticed when I shoot after cleaning is the 1st 2 shots or so are fairly inaccurate. I get my best accuracy between shots 3-15 or so.. When you go hunting don't take a clean gun. Clean it then run a few shots down the barrel. Now your ready to hunt.

 

[Squirrels]

Montana extreme make cleaner for BH209 that I find does a great job

 

[Beararms]

I will be using my 120i to measure the BH209 so I think that is 100 vol= 70gr, 110 vol= 77gr , 120 vol= 84gr.
I use Hoppes #9 and just recently started to use Ballistol on my long guns. Is Ballistol ok to use or should I stick with the Hoppes?

I see three primers being used, the Winchesters, Feds, and CCI. My local Academy has the Winchesters in stock so that is why I was going to go with them and I have read that the Knights comes from the factory set up for them. Do the feds or cci work better?

Is there any benefit to using a heavier bullet than the 265 if only going to be deer hunting from a treestand @ 100yards max? The reason I was going to pick the 265 is that is the biggest Lehigh that I can buy locally, but I could order the heavies online if needed.

One more question, does the BH209 need to be shot out the barrel if you plan on hunting the next few days or can it stay in there? Of coarse I will keep it stored empty but I usually go hunting for 3 days at a time (we camp there) and will it be ok if no moisture gets in?

 

[jm1607]

I will be using my 120i to measure the BH209 so I think that is 100 vol= 70gr, 110 vol= 77gr , 120 vol= 84gr.
I use Hoppes #9 and just recently started to use Ballistol on my long guns. Is Ballistol ok to use or should I stick with the Hoppes?

I see three primers being used, the Winchesters, Feds, and CCI. My local Academy has the Winchesters in stock so that is why I was going to go with them and I have read that the Knights comes from the factory set up for them. Do the feds or cci work better?

Is there any benefit to using a heavier bullet than the 265 if only going to be deer hunting from a treestand @ 100yards max? The reason I was going to pick the 265 is that is the biggest Lehigh that I can buy locally, but I could order the heavies online if needed.

One more question, does the BH209 need to be shot out the barrel if you plan on hunting the next few days or can it stay in there? Of coarse I will keep it stored empty but I usually go hunting for 3 days at a time (we camp there) and will it be ok if no moisture gets in?

I use Hoppes, I'm sure Ballistol is fine..

Don't know on primers. Like I said, I've only used Feds and they work perfectly..

For deer @ 100 yards, you can pretty much use any bullet/powder combo you want! Past 200 yards or shooting something bigger like Elk and you have to start adjusting stuff..

Ya, you can keep it loaded for a while.. Won't hurt anything unless it gets wet.. I've kept mine loaded for a couple weeks before.. Just leave the primer out..

 

[Beararms]

Thanks man for your help!!

 

[jm1607]

Np! I had tons of questions when I first started out but once you get to shoot a few times it all comes together pretty fast..

 

[Beararms]

Shot # 6-7 after getting on paper
View attachment 57786



Went to shoot it today and after shot #7 the bolt lifted but would not come back. This was my first time to shoot it. Was using Win W209, BH 209 70gr/wt, mmp 24, Lehigh 265.

When I got home I had to put oil around the primer and tap the bolt with a mallet for the bolt to move backwards. Not a happy camper. Is this something I am just gonna have to deal with or will Knight fix the issue? I see people putting shims in but I don't think I should have to gunsmith a new $1000 firearm.

 

[CoHiCntry]

Shot # 6-7 after getting on paper


Went to shoot it today and after shot #7 the bolt lifted but would not come back. This was my first time to shoot it. Was using Win W209, BH 209 70gr/wt, mmp 24, Lehigh 265.

When I got home I had to put oil around the primer and tap the bolt with a mallet for the bolt to move backwards. Not a happy camper. Is this something I am just gonna have to deal with or will Knight fix the issue? I see people putting shims in but I don't think I should have to gunsmith a new $1000 firearm.

Mine did the same thing. First time out I couldn't get the bolt to move backwards. I had to strike it with the palm of my hand to get it to release. After some research I ended up buying a custom built plug specific to the tolerances of my gun. The vent liner in the stock breech plugs supposedly doesn't last much more than a hundred shots so I figured it was worth it to get the other plug instead of spending time messing with the stock plug. Your right, for that kind of money you shouldn't have to do anything to it. I called Knight about it and never got a return call. PM me if you want the information on the guy who builds the plugs.

Also... search the modern muzzleloader forum about this topic for more information. It's been covered quite a bit and you can get a better understanding of what's happening and the alternatives to fixing it.

 

[Beararms]

PM sent

 

[sabotloader]

Shot # 6-7 after getting on paper
View attachment 57786

View attachment 57788

Went to shoot it today and after shot #7 the bolt lifted but would not come back. This was my first time to shoot it. Was using Win W209, BH 209 70gr/wt, mmp 24, Lehigh 265.

When I got home I had to put oil around the primer and tap the bolt with a mallet for the bolt to move backwards. Not a happy camper. Is this something I am just gonna have to deal with or will Knight fix the issue? I see people putting shims in but I don't think I should have to gunsmith a new $1000 firearm.

Normally but not always this happen when enough blow back pressure is felt on the nose of the primer it either shove the primer back out of the battery cup or it swells the body of the primer so much it grabs the walls of the primer port in the breech plug.

The first thing I would check is to see if the flash channel in the breech plug is plugged or nearly plugged. You will need a 5/32" drill bit that you turn by hand to drill out the flash channel.

Breech Plug

Bit on a Stick

What did your spent primers look like when you extracted them. They will normally tell you what's happening.

The primers in this picture are spent primers - your primers should look like this if your bolt and breech plug are head spaced correctly. Leaking primers will cause the breech plug to fill more rapidly as well as coat the walls of the primer pocket.

You can test if you are getting primer crush using the steps discussed in this thread:

This is a good quick test for you...

This is the method that I use to get to correct amount of shimming in place.

With the breech plug installed snuggly in the rifle
1. Remove the bolt assembly from the rifle.
2. Remove the hammer/firing pin assembly from the bolt
3. Reinstall the bolt housing in the rifle.
a. When you push the bolt forward and release the handle it should just fall down into the closed position – ne resistance at all.
b. Next install a primer in the nose of the bolt and repeat the test.
i. If the bolt handle falls to the bottom again then you need to into install shims in the primer pocket to get the correct headspace.
ii. If the handle does not fall to the bottom and you encounter some resistance the head space is probably near correct. It should take some effort to push the bolt handle down.
If the handle falls to the bottom with no resistance with a primer installed you will now need to find out how many shims you are going to need to install. For this operation I use the .214 x .005 OD shims. Also during this process the breech plug should be very clean and DRY, so the .241 shims can be easily removed.

Knight will fix this for you but you have to send the rifle in. Make sure you tell them which primer you want to use...

Hope some of this helps...

 

[CoHiCntry]

Now that I think about it... since this didn't happen until your 7th shot, sabotloader might be onto something with checking the flash hole with a drill bit. Mine got stuck on the very first shot and every shot there after until I got it fixed. Weird that yours was fine for the first few shots?

 

[Beararms]

I actually used a drill bit and cleaned the bp out before I shot it before screwing it back in (I cleaned it) after receiving it. I had read where you told someone else about it and bought one from lowes. I will say that all the primers were not clean looking at all and had a bunch of black residue on them (they did not make the trip back to take pics)

Shots 1-5 were like butter, shot 6 the bolt would not go back, I cocked it and pulled the trigger, then the primer just fell out. Shot 7 would not go back without tools. To me it looks like the primer swelled up and prevented the bolt from going backwards. I could move the bolt up/down without much resistance, it was stuck with about 3mm of the primer showing.

 

[Beararms]

 

[Beararms]

 

[sabotloader]

I actually used a drill bit and cleaned the bp out before I shot it before screwing it back in (I cleaned it) after receiving it. I had read where you told someone else about it and bought one from lowes. I will say that all the primers were not clean looking at all and had a bunch of black residue on them (they did not make the trip back to take pics)

Shots 1-5 were like butter, shot 6 the bolt would not go back, I cocked it and pulled the trigger, then the primer just fell out. Shot 7 would not go back without tools. To me it looks like the primer swelled up and prevented the bolt from going backwards. I could move the bolt up/down without much resistance, it was stuck with about 3mm of the primer showing.

You have laid it out to the point I would suggest your head space is to large and the breech plug need to be shimmed. Knight will not do that they will try different breech plugs until they find one that will work with your rifle and the given primer.

I could not see your two attachments the link would not work... but from what you are saying I believe the flash channel clogged enough to create enough pressure it back the primer out and shot 7 it was so clogged that it bulged the primer.

I hope you are able to get it fixed quickly...

 

[Beararms]

 

[Beararms]

So I look into the Bestill directions for ordering a new plug from him and step #1 is to measure the primers. I measure about 10 different Winchester W209 primers with my dial Brown & Sharpe calipers and I am getting anywhere from .299-.304. (I have a set of gauge blocks so I know the calipers are spot on)

Is this normal? What do I go with? Will it matter as long as I do all measurements with the same primer?

It looks like I am getting .000-.001 crush. I will need to get some feeler gauges this week and see what the .002 does to the measurement. I have sent Bestill a message so I will order one from him when I get the measurements correct.

Thanks for all your info!!

 

[CoHiCntry]

So I look into the Bestill directions for ordering a new plug from him and step #1 is to measure the primers. I measure about 10 different Winchester W209 primers with my dial Brown & Sharpe calipers and I am getting anywhere from .299-.304. (I have a set of gauge blocks so I know the calipers are spot on)

Is this normal? What do I go with? Will it matter as long as I do all measurements with the same primer?

It looks like I am getting .000-.001 crush. I will need to get some feeler gauges this week and see what the .002 does to the measurement. I have sent Bestill a message so I will order one from him when I get the measurements correct.

Thanks for all your info!!

Just tell him the kind of primers your using and the measurements you got. He should be able to take it from there. I know primers will varie in length. I'm not sure how much though, or if yours are excessively different? Bestill will know.

 

[Beararms]

Just talked with Bestill, just gonna send him the barreled action and let him work his magic!
I will get it sent off Monday. Now I have to decide if I stick with Win W209 or look else where.

I took @ 50 primers and measured them, here are the differences. Once I get the new plug, will I have to sort by length and then only use a certain length or should all work with the new plug?