Setting up a Knight Mountaineer

[brunse]

So I have a friend that is a fantastic long range muzzleloader shooter. He helped me find the mountaineer I now own. I have shot and killed a few deer in the past with my old t/c scout but am pretty much a bow hunter.

My intention is to hunt and kill a decent CO mule deer with my new mountaineer. I can get close with my bow but am a little too impatient!! I do love September in the mountains though.

My friend has me pretty much convinced to work up some loads with FFg and some heavy conicals. My mountaineer actually was built for someone else so it is a 1:24.

I'm thinking of mounting a scope on it to work up some loads and use a peep and shaver style(?crosshair) front sight for CO.

I found a ss rail that might fit?? I don't know about 0,10,20 moa on the rail? Thinking of quick release rings?

My friend suggested a low power vortex scope. What options would you all suggest on hash marks or reticles?

Thanks for any input.

 

[brunse]

Sorry. It's a 50 cal and I'll likely hunt some cow elk with it too. Thanks again.

 

[elkguide]

If you're only using a scope to work up loads, there are lots of fixed power scopes out there that will fit the bill to help you work up a load that your rifle likes. I like a scope in the 6 - 8 power range but I spend a lot of time at the bench and I find those magnifications work well for me. Don't know if reticle, hash marks or whatever really matters for load development.

I'm a bow hunter first, muzzleloader second and rifle hunter then but much of the fun for me is putting together the arrow/broadhead, charge/bullet combination that is the most accurate to help me pursue my quarry.
Good luck.

 

[brunse]

I may hunt some deer in the Midwest or here in PA. ill keep my options open. Thanks.

 

[OG DramaLlama]

Did you see Robby’s series on how he set his Mountaineer up. Four part series. I believe it is a sticky on this thread. He covers a lot of what you asked.

Here is the first part:

Building an Extended Range Muzzleloader for Hunting Big Mule Deer - Rokslide

Another member, Robie, did another really good write up on how he set up his UL.

Do a quick search on on Sabotloader. Almost all of his posts are extremely informative and he is a super helpful guy.

Just set up my UL 50 cal. Using the information from these members as a guide.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dirtdarte]

Robby's writeup is absolutely worth reading as suggested by Elkoholic.... Almost any scope will work for load development and the globe sight with Shaver inserts is an excellent way to go. I have 3 rifles setup this way. Full conicals take a little time to refine and the recoil these loads can develop become something to contend with when you're working up your load... so be prepared for that...lol. Accuracy and consistency can be excellent but you're dealing with a muzzleloader burning Black powder or a Black powder substitute.... Keep that in mind and realize that you can't make your rifle into some super velocity, flat trajectory laser beam. So, go heavy with your conicals and enjoy the recoil. Work on extending your effective range incrementally.... 25 yards at a time out to 200, and then cut that down to 10 yard increments past 200 out to your limit. With this information you will have a drop chart that you can actually use in the field to make hits as far as you can see the sights... then limit your shots to 125-150 on game animals...lol.

 

[brunse]

thanks for the replies. i have read a lot of threads in the past... guess i better catch up

 

[brunse]

So I have caught up on a few old threads. Thanks.

So I am thinking I ll start with Leupold QRW bases and rings. I like the idea of using the scope to set up loads and be easily attached and removed. I found a 4 x bushnell I didn't realize I had from my youth. Ill start with that.

I see Robbie had a little trouble with his ultralight and short bases.... that may affect my globe and peep choice eventually. My rifle hass fiber optic sights in it currently, so I may shoot them a little before moving ahead. I see the XS sights have a weaver style backup sight that is low or high. I may go that route rather than the Williams...

Considering the peep sight, I don't know whether to practice hold overs or try to find a target style peep that adjust in the field to my preset shot ranges. I plan to shoot some bigger bullets like buffalo arms 550grain lead at my friends suggestion (1300fps out of his rifle), but am open to other options.

ANy suggestions yet?

thanks

 

[mcr-85]

I bought a Remington 541 rail. I had to shorten it and redrill the front two holes but it matches the barrel contour. I like the mountaineer. Mine seems to shoot pretty good.

View attachment 65032

 

[sabotloader]

So I have caught up on a few old threads. Thanks.

So I am thinking I ll start with Leupold QRW bases and rings. I like the idea of using the scope to set up loads and be easily attached and removed. I found a 4 x bushnell I didn't realize I had from my youth. Ill start with that.

That is really a good choice in my mind. The Leupold bases are real steel and they are low mount so you will need medium rings to get the scope clearance.

You can see the bases on this Mountaineer Ultra-Lite. It is set up for Western shooting right with a NECG Peep sight. When I use the rifle during rifle season I just unscrew the QR NECG and place a scope on the mounts.

I tried a rail for awhile but was not comfortable with it as it limited my access to the breech area...

I see Robbie had a little trouble with his ultralight and short bases.... that may affect my globe and peep choice eventually. My rifle hass fiber optic sights in it currently, so I may shoot them a little before moving ahead. I see the XS sights have a weaver style backup sight that is low or high. I may go that route rather than the Williams... [/quote]

As you can see I used the NECG Peep with a Weaver mount to get to my Western setup... I really did not have a problem but I used what I believe is the correct height Williams front sight.

This is the rifle set for PacNorWest states...

This is my front sight setup... works really well. With the Williams Hood it makes mt think I am looking through a 1X scope.

Considering the peep sight, I don't know whether to practice hold overs or try to find a target style peep that adjust in the field to my preset shot ranges. I plan to shoot some bigger bullets like buffalo arms 550grain lead at my friends suggestion (1300fps out of his rifle), but am open to other options.

ANy suggestions yet?

thanks

For myself ad what I was taught by different people... I use a 6" PBR - which means in essence I sight the rifle in near 3" high at 100 yards. Then I know from 0 to approximately 170/80 yards (depending on your load) you never be higher than 3" or lower than 3" through that given range. Then I use a 6 O'clock hold on the target. Sight picture 'H'

Hope some of this helps a bit...

 

[dirtdarte]

I've gone down this road using XS peeps, Williams adjustable and NECG peeps. All these sights a good sights and you won't be disappointed with any of them. The Williams sight has the greatest potential if you want to make range adjustments in the field for targets that exceed 200 yards... and you'll need to make adjustments as the distance increases... especially with receiver sights.

In my opinion... and this is only my opinion..... shots that exceed 150 yards with open peep sights must be made with great care and preparation. In other words, it's difficult, in the field, shooting off field positions in a hunting situation to consistently make hits that far out with a muzzleloader. At the shooting bench, where you have plenty of time and good rests and positions, it's no big deal to make accurate hit out past 200 yds+.... even 300 yds isn't difficult... once the sights are adjusted, no big trick. I have several muzzleloaders set up with peeps but with the Williams sight, I can make on the fly adjustments and hold dead on the target... and make good hits. Once you start the holdover game... with a muzzleloader.... out past 200yds... you are doing little more than making your best guess... sights are difficult to see in relation to the target and elevating off the target for holdover just adds to the difficulty. You may have a complete knowledge of the drops at whatever distance but it is very difficult to estimate that drop and make precise adjustments by using the holdover technique. Hunting a bigger animal actually helps in this regard as the kill zone is bigger so my personal max range for Elk is further than deer for instance.

Going heavy with full conicals is the way to go if you want distance and killing power past 200yds. No doubt at all about that. Shooting 550gr bullets will prove to be pretty high in the recoil department... punishing comes to mind. I'm not recoil sensitive...per se... but after 20 rounds of those big heavies... all bet's are off. Be prepared for that. I'm sure you could kill a cape buffalo with them. Don't try to push them too hard... you don't need to. In my opinion, you're on the right track... you're not falling for the high velocity hype.

So, my recommendation is go with adjustable peep sights that can be adjusted while hunting with a good hooded front sight and Lee shaver inserts and shoot a bunch. Like a whole bunch. After you've sent 40 or 50 POUNDS of lead down range, you'll know what works and what doesn't. This is the preparation that 90% never do... Muzzleloaders are different and to become proficient with them you really have to understand them.. that means shooting them and experimenting. There is much more than simply knowing the trajectory and cranking on the sights... this fact will become clear as you start to extend your range. Not much of this matters if you keep your shots to within 150 yards.

 

[dirtdarte]

Here are some links to the Williams receiver sight I use. It works on the Mountaineer without having to modify the stock as this sight doesn't hang down on the left hand side. It's fully adjustable and will allow range adjustments out to 500 yds+ (i'd never shoot at a big game animal at that range buy the way).
Williams FP-AG Receiver Peep Sight Target Knobs Air Guns - MPN: 14170

You'll need to use a 3/8 dovetail to mount this sight. I haven't been able to find one that can simply be mounted without being cut to length and drilled. So, I bought this from Brownells, drilled and cut to the length I needed. It works great.
BROWNELLS DOVETAIL SCOPE BASE STOCK | Brownells

You'll need a gib lock to be able to loosen and tighten the elevation side of the sight for on the fly adjustments in the field. This one works but you will need to trim down the length of the threads... no big deal to do with a file.
WILLIAMS GUN SIGHT FOOLPROOF TARGET KNOBS | Brownells

For your front sight, you'll need a sight ramp to mount your globe sight to. I use this one. It has the 1.625 hole spacing you need. The taller Williams ramps have a 2" spacing and wont work. This ramp is only .095 tall so your globe sight will have to be higher... thats not a problem.
WILLIAMS GUN SIGHT .22 SCREW-ON STREAMLINED RAMP | Brownells

The front globe sight can be whatever you choose but must be a pretty high one. I suggest the Lee shavers 17A style sight with the bubble level at .850 height. Because the sights will be pretty high off your barrel, the level will help keep you from canting your rifle. Consider purchasing these sights from Lee Shavers, they include the apertures with the sights which will save you $20. You wont have to get the apertures separately.
New Style 17A Front Sight .375" D.T. 0.850" height - Lee Shaver Gunsmithing

This setup on a Mountaineer will put your sights pretty much dead on at 100yds with the receiver sight set at it lowest or zero setting depending on your load. It will be close enough. This same setup will work with a Ultralight but will put you 6 inches high at 100 yards which is fine by me. It will be dead on at 150yds. Pretty much where you want to be anyway.

I recommend it.

 

[brunse]

Wow. Awesome information. I look forward to this project. Thanks a lot. I’ll keep my progress posted.

 

[robie]

Thanks for posting this. I've got a call into Williams to answer this question for the Ultralight.

Here are some links to the Williams receiver sight I use. It works on the Mountaineer without having to modify the stock as this sight doesn't hang down on the left hand side. It's fully adjustable and will allow range adjustments out to 500 yds+ (i'd never shoot at a big game animal at that range buy the way).
Williams FP-AG Receiver Peep Sight Target Knobs Air Guns - MPN: 14170

You'll need to use a 3/8 dovetail to mount this sight. I haven't been able to find one that can simply be mounted without being cut to length and drilled. So, I bought this from Brownells, drilled and cut to the length I needed. It works great.
BROWNELLS DOVETAIL SCOPE BASE STOCK | Brownells

You'll need a gib lock to be able to loosen and tighten the elevation side of the sight for on the fly adjustments in the field. This one works but you will need to trim down the length of the threads... no big deal to do with a file.
WILLIAMS GUN SIGHT FOOLPROOF TARGET KNOBS | Brownells

For your front sight, you'll need a sight ramp to mount your globe sight to. I use this one. It has the 1.625 hole spacing you need. The taller Williams ramps have a 2" spacing and wont work. This ramp is only .095 tall so your globe sight will have to be higher... thats not a problem.
WILLIAMS GUN SIGHT .22 SCREW-ON STREAMLINED RAMP | Brownells

The front globe sight can be whatever you choose but must be a pretty high one. I suggest the Lee shavers 17A style sight with the bubble level at .850 height. Because the sights will be pretty high off your barrel, the level will help keep you from canting your rifle. Consider purchasing these sights from Lee Shavers, they include the apertures with the sights which will save you $20. You wont have to get the apertures separately.
New Style 17A Front Sight .375" D.T. 0.850" height - Lee Shaver Gunsmithing

This setup on a Mountaineer will put your sights pretty much dead on at 100yds with the receiver sight set at it lowest or zero setting depending on your load. It will be close enough. This same setup will work with a Ultralight but will put you 6 inches high at 100 yards which is fine by me. It will be dead on at 150yds. Pretty much where you want to be anyway.

I recommend it.