Unbreakable Runner

[AkMtnRunner]

Running a flat marathon has a very special demand on our running technique and certain muscles. It sounds like your training stimulated your quads a lot more than your hamstrings. The deadlift does trigger the hamstrings but doesn't train their endurance. Running uphill can do a great job if the posture is correct to drive from the glutes and hamstrings rather than the quads. Running downhill usually doesn't work the hamstrings unless they are gradual and running them quite fast.

Consider the fastest runners in the world over flat terrain. All the strength they need is to turn their leg swing around forward-backward-forward-backward . . . The faster the ground speed, the greater power it takes to swing the legs from the core/hips AND the hamstrings. After thousands and thousands of contractions by your hamstrings at a decent power output, they're going to go haywire if their endurance is not conditioned.

One suggestion, that wouldn't require you to put in high mileage, is to run for sustained periods (30-45 min, 60 min would be great) on faster/flatter terrain at what I would call an assertive-relaxed intensity. Fast enough to waken the hamstrings' power, easy enough to work mostly aerobically so you're able to run long enough to challenge their endurance. If you use heart rate, this means getting to around 75% of max HR after warming up then progressing up to 85% of max HR by the end. You may not be able to see the gains in the mirror but you'll definitely feel stronger and fitter, and have greater stamina.

 

[Owens]

First off, congrats on the finish! Your body shutting down sounds to me like a possible fueling issue. Did you eat anything and hydrate adequately during the race?

 

[gauge]

First off, congrats on the finish! Your body shutting down sounds to me like a possible fueling issue. Did you eat anything and hydrate adequately during the race?

Thanks!
Pre-race I ate a banana and almond butter, which is what I ate before all training runs. I did eat some GUs but not much, as I didn't train with them. I also tried to do about 3/4 water and 1/4 Gatorade at the water stations. I am sure I pushed too hard during the first 3/4's of the race, looking back. I just felt great on that flat course plus all that goes with the marathon itself. As the temperature rose to 80 I felt depleted quickly. I will learn from it, but I am just trying to know WHAT to learn.

 

[marcb]

America's most elite runner recently hit the gym, packed on 40 pounds of muscle and stated that most pro runners are "weak". He mentioned that in prime running shape, stirring a pot of chili would make his shoulder sore.

I wouldn't take anything about Ryan "DNF" Hall's training and think it applies to anyone smart enough to listen to a coach. I have no doubt Ryan neglected many aspects of his training which is exactly why he had 2 good performances and a whole lot of failures.

 

[gauge]

I wouldn't take anything about Ryan "DNF" Hall's training and think it applies to anyone smart enough to listen to a coach. I have no doubt Ryan neglected many aspects of his training which is exactly why he had 2 good performances and a whole lot of failures.

I am sure Poser wasn't suggesting I mirror Ryan's training when I started this. Although a guy breaking American running records isn't someone I would hate on.
I followed a training plan of full body lifts in interval circuits, "crossfit" style training. I wanted to run a marathon simply for the challenge of complete control of mind and body. In this training, I didn't want to pound out 60 miles a week and lose 10 lbs of muscle. I rarely ran more than 35 miles a week and finished under my goal time.

 

[the big Mao]

As a "former" ultramarathoner, I'd strongly caution you all to toss your shoes at around 3 months' time, and pop for new ones. I've trashed both feet and one knee doing some hard runs, and am now paying for it with a left arch rebuild which took 5.5 hours time on the table, upcoming left knee replacement in March, and I don't know how many scopes on my knees to extract totaled meniscus parts. When I was running in my 30's and 40's, I'd put in 15 miles/day, up to 60 or so on a non-race weekend, and rest on Sunday. I was too stingy to replace my shoes with any frequency, and now I'll never run again (not, at 68 yrs old, it really bothers me that much anymore!). Makes training very difficult to pull off though, and where I live, riding a bike isn't all that safe when you're on the roads. I DO envy you young guys though, your ability to go long and go hard into the hills. But don't overtrain-really be careful with that (i wasn't!).

 

[Owens]

Thanks!
Pre-race I ate a banana and almond butter, which is what I ate before all training runs. I did eat some GUs but not much, as I didn't train with them. I also tried to do about 3/4 water and 1/4 Gatorade at the water stations. I am sure I pushed too hard during the first 3/4's of the race, looking back. I just felt great on that flat course plus all that goes with the marathon itself. As the temperature rose to 80 I felt depleted quickly. I will learn from it, but I am just trying to know WHAT to learn.

That's pretty similar to my first marathon, and several other runs and races... I'm a slow learner. I would try getting in more calories, both before and during the run. For my best marathon I think I had 300-400 calories before the race. Then during I ate bananas and/or oranges at every aid station. Probably some Gatorade as well. I don't know how many calories it added up to, but it seemed like a lot.

But 80 degree temps are going to have a huge effect as well. There isn't a lot you can do about that.

 

[the big Mao]

I'll never forget my first marathon: hit the 13-mile mark and thought I'd stretch out the muscles around my shoulders-they were getting a little tight. No sooner had I stopped running, than this OLD lady trotted by, saying "don't quit now, dear"! I thought "now way Gran..." and she put me away like a bag of groceries! Telling the story to other runners, I learned later her name was Mavis, from somewhere in the Bay Are, and at 76 years old, usually outran pretty much everybody else. Good for her!!!

 

[gauge]

As a "former" ultramarathoner, I'd strongly caution you all to toss your shoes at around 3 months' time, and pop for new ones. I've trashed both feet and one knee doing some hard runs, and am now paying for it with a left arch rebuild which took 5.5 hours time on the table, upcoming left knee replacement in March, and I don't know how many scopes on my knees to extract totaled meniscus parts. When I was running in my 30's and 40's, I'd put in 15 miles/day, up to 60 or so on a non-race weekend, and rest on Sunday. I was too stingy to replace my shoes with any frequency, and now I'll never run again (not, at 68 yrs old, it really bothers me that much anymore!). Makes training very difficult to pull off though, and where I live, riding a bike isn't all that safe when you're on the roads. I DO envy you young guys though, your ability to go long and go hard into the hills. But don't overtrain-really be careful with that (i wasn't!).

Mao... Did you ever fight cramps during your competitive runs?