Why can't Vortex match Swarovski ?

[Mk7mmSTW]

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/10/24/best-tactical-scopes-what-the-pros-use/

Come on guys, it says right in there vortex is one of the main sponsors for the event and shooters and the owner was shooting! That's like if each one of us were in a "top hunter competition" and the judges were one contestents mom, dad, wife and grandmother... I mean you can actually apply to pro staff vortex right on they're website!

Again, not saying vortex is a horrible optic, I'm just saying there are others that are more reputable. I'm sure there are things that a vortex razor 2 or 3 (don't know the line) offers for a match guy that a S&B or bushnell might not. Every company has its place in the industry. I'm just saying, I've never seen a single non bios, non sponsored/pro staffed by vortex review done on all the major makers out there of spotters and bino's and seem vortex win in clarity, brightness or color. Doesn't mean they are a bad company, again I'm just saying there are better glass makers out there. If the contest was speed of return when it breaks/you break it, no doubt vortex will take care of you the quickest. They advertise they're return/repair policy everywhere so you know that is they're flag ship feature.

 

[KurtR]

So you are saying all these companies make there own glass.?

http://www.scout.com/military/snipe...es/13865031-killswitch-s-scope-tracking-tests

Interesting read.

 

[Mk7mmSTW]

So you are saying all these companies make there own glass.?

http://www.scout.com/military/snipe...es/13865031-killswitch-s-scope-tracking-tests

Interesting read.

Awesome read! I don't think they all make there own glass nor did I see anyone say everyone makes there own glass. Some do make there own glass and at the very least many have manufacturing facilities in they're own country. I know vortex is talking about it, but for now, it's just a company in the mid west ordering and having things made in a warehouse in China or Japan and having it shipped here. I know it's impossible to get everything made in the U.S., but if it's a U.S. Company I try my hardest to make sure they make it here. I cancelled my new mystery ranch pack after I found out the new hunting pack line is made over sea's now and I'm a live and die by mystery ranch guy. I ordered 2 of the U.S made metcalfs and Marshall packs to hold me over till they come back state side. I'll start respecting vortex once more or anything is done here, in the country they started in. Again, not saying they're horrible, just does nothing for me. When you try and research where vortex makes or gets there products from, there is a hundred different answers on different forums. Shouldn't be that hard to track down info.

 

[KurtR]

They are making scopes in the USA. The amg is made completely in house sans lenses which are ground in Wisconsin . The razor 2 is assembled in their factory in Wisconsin. Frank gali owner of snipershide has videos from their factory. If you want to know call and talk to Dave at vortex he has answered every question that is not about proprietary information

 

[tipsntails7]

Feel free to list any and all government, country or major LE contracts with vortex, I could be wrong but I have not read of a single one. Leupold, zeiss, nightforce, S&B, kahles, US optics, Steiner all have or have had contracts. All these major brands advertise features or accomplishments, I just see vortex advertising about when or if it breaks, we will fix it no matter what. I never claimed more people aren't switching to vortex for different things, but as many reviews state, optically clarity varies from person to person along with performance and any person can find a review/comparison chart of any and every product made and the results will change with each study. Anyone can find a study showing what they want. I said at the beginning this is my opinion from what I read. call it what you want, this is a dodge/Chevy debate and someone will always get there feeling hurt and start using foul language when someone talks down on there brand. From what I have seen and read these are my opinions.
I love nightforce and Swarovski for many different reasons and those are my brands I have the most experience with. I'm pretty opinionated about the gear I like or don't like and don't mind talking about it as I spend the majority of my time using it. I don't stand alone in my views on vortex as I keep getting notified of people liking or thanking for what I posted. Again this is a dodge/Chevy/ford debate.

I don't keep up on stuff like that because well... It doesn't matter to me. And it doesn't correlate. products picked for those contracts are always the best product obviously..

I don't like vortex and it has nothing to do with their products. It's a personal decision that they will no longer get my money but not because their optics are from China.

Better components and coatings. True or they wouldn't be cheaper

The stuff about Kuiu is again pretty wild assumptions that I can assume is either an issue you have with how people spend their money, or you've been slighted by them somehow. Plenty of Guides and guys put shit down wearing Kuiu. Again Kuiu is not my cup of tea but I don't think everyone wearing it is a pansy or a pretty boy.

Zen Ray is not vortex. That's pretty simple.

 

[Mk7mmSTW]

I don't keep up on stuff like that because well... It doesn't matter to me. And it doesn't correlate. products picked for those contracts are always the best product obviously..

I don't like vortex and it has nothing to do with their products. It's a personal decision that they will no longer get my money but not because their optics are from China.

Better components and coatings. True or they wouldn't be cheaper

The stuff about Kuiu is again pretty wild assumptions that I can assume is either an issue you have with how people spend their money, or you've been slighted by them somehow. Plenty of Guides and guys put shit down wearing Kuiu. Again Kuiu is not my cup of tea but I don't think everyone wearing it is a pansy or a pretty boy.

Zen Ray is not vortex. That's pretty simple.

Like I said multiple time, these are just my opinions. I don't disagree with anything you stated. I never said plenty of people dont kill wearing head to toe kuiu. Personal experience and close friends gear failures have lead to my stance on many products. This is a forum where people post personal experience's and impressions of topics revolving around the outdoors and these are mine. Someone will always see things different than someone else and that's totally fine. A hundred people will read this and get a hundred different opinions. Like a said, ford and Chevy.

 

[KurtR]

Opinions are fine what people use and spend there money on is their choice. It's the stuff that is just not true that gets me going.

 

[WRO]

So you are saying all these companies make there own glass.?

http://www.scout.com/military/snipe...es/13865031-killswitch-s-scope-tracking-tests

Interesting read.

Imho, with regards to sport optics glass there's schott from Germany, and the everything else..

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[Mk7mmSTW]

Opinions are fine what people use and spend there money on is their choice. It's the stuff that is just not true that gets me going.

Kurt,
I agree what people do with there money is there choice. Just like if you say a ford is a crap truck that has trouble even hauling a spair tire and that only real men drive chevy's and I happen to have spent my hard earned money on a ford and like ford, I'm not going to take it personal. It's just your opinion and those are my opinions on those companies. My closest hunting partner lives an hour from Dixon ( kuiu head quarters ) and owns every thing down to the key chain they sell. He looks like a kuiu model even when he is going to bed!! He hides kuiu stickers around my house when he comes out to hunt.. Everything I said on here he is reading right now and I tell him to his face all my opinions just like he tells me his opinions on how much he hates the weight/lack of features of all my MR pack's. I don't get angry at all over it, it's another mans opinion. As for vortex, I will admit I was completely wrong in the fact they now make the new 3k razor state side. I had no clue and this is the first I had seen of it. So I will admit my wrong and tell you I'm sorry for that statement if it didn't sit well with you. The last razor I saw at the range had China on the scope or box, but I guess that had changed. I don't care for them any more than I did 30 minutes ago when I learned the 3k scope is state side, but props to them for brings some jobs back state side. They bring it all over and get a bunch of US employees making stuff for this us company and I will be giving them a second look as that holds major weight in my book. I still find it funny the first line at the top of the page of this top scope's says "VIP warranty repair if it becomes damaged or defective...."
When I said vortex and zen Ray are the same, Clearly we all know they are not identical. I meant quality is the same from every bird watcher/hunting review I have read and from personal experience with the spotters. I spent a day with a angled zen and a strait razor and if you covered the name, I couldn't tell you which was better or more expensive. Yes the bodies and external mechanisms are clearly made in the same mass optics over sea's facility as they are identical, but I have read each company puts they're own internals in the body, but maybe someone else can tell the difference but I sure couldn't at all.

I learned something today so thank you.

Again my opinions on a classic ford/Chevy/dodge debate. Truth be told, I'm a ram fan and wouldn't even sit in a ford!! Haha

 

[Mk7mmSTW]

A few things:


Vortex makes products, IMO, designed to compete in the Asian mfg's arena (Nikon, Bushnell, Pentax, Leupold, Zen-Ray) as well as some Euro companies (Zeiss, Meopta, Minox). They, again IMO, offer a quality product priced slightly below a similar item from another mfg as well as producing some optics above the offerings of these other companies. They offer the finest warranty in the industry (full no questions asked coverage) which is not exclusive to them, however, the majority of companies do not offer the same.


Swarovski and Leica compete for the finest of the fine. They are in their own exclusive arena (Zeiss used to be there with them, however, they now offer entry level optics as well as the finest of the fine) Swaro & Leica do not offer any entry level options as this is not what their companies are about. BMW, Jaguar and Rolls Royce do not offer an entry level vehicles. It's not what they are about. GM offers entry level vehicles as well as high end Cadillacs. I would not expect GM to offer anything to compare to a Rolls, however, they make some great vehicles.


The Vortex Razor series is very high end. In a side by side with a top end Zeiss, Leica or Swaro some people will see a difference, and some will not. That depends on the eyesight of the viewer. Those that see a difference can then decide if the price difference warrants the difference they see. It is all very subjective and will always vary from person to person.



I know Vortex has put in a ton of resources the last five years to have their Very Own American Scope Factory. Coming soon you will find the new AMG Scope available here at Camera Land.
Vortex is moving in a direction to manufacture more of their products here in the USA. I for one am very excited about this. I think in the past decade they have made some amazing products, priced them right and stood behind all their offerings. This has made what was a barely known company a major player in the optics industry.
I don't think the Swarovski's of the industry need to be concerned, however, the Nikon's of the industry certainly should be.

So don't wonder why a Vortex is not matching Swarovski, but maybe see what Vortex is offering in the price range that interests you and compare it within that price range. I think you'll be very pleased.

Feel free to give me a call to discuss optics anytime. That's what we are here for.
Doug 516-217-1000

Perfectly said Doug. That about sums it up for me.

 

[Ryan Avery]

It makes zero sense to knock Vortex. They make a great product at a great price. They stand behind their product. They are making an effort to build products in America and every year they improve their line.

For a company that is only 12 years old, I would say they are doing in right!

These optic companies offer products from average to off the charts. I've said this 1000 times in PMs, in emails and on here. Go out and test them yourself. Forum and blog reviews are a great place to start, but only you know your needs, and what your eyes see.

 

[fiskeri1]

They make a great product at a great price.

This is what I've always struggled with considering this brand. My own experiences have been the opposite.
1. When it came time to throw down $$ for binos, I tested the Razor 10x42's directly against about 12 other choices. I thought they were worse than at least two cheaper options (as always ymmv)
2. Tried a guide's 12x50 Razor bino's in the field. Again thought they were terrible (again my eyes).
3. The same guide, when given a choice between his Razor 20-60x85 spotter and my old, non-HD Swarovski 20-60x80 (bought used at less $$ than the Vortex) he always chose mine.
4. Different guide with the same model Vortex spotter on a different hunt. On the third day of the hunt he was wondering why all of a sudden his image quality was terrible. Close inspection produced the realization that an internal screw had come loose and was rattling around the inside of the scope and had scratched up the internal lenses. They replaced it under the vaunted warranty but he was SOL for his season (at least on my hunt with him we had my old Swaro as "backup").

Admittedly a small sample size but all in the same negative direction.

 

[Ryan Avery]

This is what I've always struggled with considering this brand. My own experiences have been the opposite.
1. When it came time to throw down $$ for binos, I tested the Razor 10x42's directly against about 12 other choices. I thought they were worse than at least two cheaper options (as always ymmv)
2. Tried a guide's 12x50 Razor bino's in the field. Again thought they were terrible (again my eyes).
3. The same guide, when given a choice between his Razor 20-60x85 spotter and my old, non-HD Swarovski 20-60x80 (bought used at less $$ than the Vortex) he always chose mine.
4. Different guide with the same model Vortex spotter on a different hunt. On the third day of the hunt he was wondering why all of a sudden his image quality was terrible. Close inspection produced the realization that an internal screw had come loose and was rattling around the inside of the scope and had scratched up the internal lenses. They replaced it under the vaunted warranty but he was SOL for his season (at least on my hunt with him we had my old Swaro as "backup").

Admittedly a small sample size but all in the same negative direction.

Exactly my point. You tested it, your eyes don't like them.

I get to glass mountain sides a 100 days or so a year. I've seen people look though $500 glass and tell me they see no difference compared to $2500 glass. So why would that person spend more?

Cool part is, we have choices!

My problem is, I can't stop buying them

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[fiskeri1]

Nice! You almost have one for every day of the week.

Yes, I like to hunt mule deer and choose to be able to spot them (with the help of my EL's).