Swarovski Z5

[Clarktar]

I am a bit confused. I have been looking for a new rifle scope for a 30-06 that is headed my way. This is my wifes new rifle, and she would like to start stretching out her practice rounds, out to 800+ if possible. We want to keep the scope light weight ad she does a fair amount of still hunting.

So I started to look at Z5 scopes. Specifically the "sheep hunter" and "Long range hunter"

Sheep Hunter: 3.5-18x44, weights 16 oz. 14.5 MOA adjustment range.
Long Range Hunter: 5 - 25 x 52, 17oz. This scope only has 10.75 MOA.

Why would the more powerful, "Long Range Hunter" have less moa to dial? I would would think it would have the most considering the name etc. You have to give up some magnification to gain more MOA?

 

[Matt Cashell]

The 3.5-18 has 58 MOA total internal adjustment while the 5-25 has 43 MOA. They are limited due to the 1 inch tube.

Higher magnification scopes have less range of adjustment. The lenses that control the magnification are in the erector assembly and larger magnification scopes have larger erector assemblies, which take up more room in the tube, and therefore have less internal adjustment.

The solution for getting lots of adjustment from high magnification scopes is to have larger tubes, which is why many high magnification tactical scopes have large tubes like 34mm.

 

[colonel00]

My guess, and purely an uneducated guess, is that it's a function of internal limitations paired with the increased zoom. I'm sure someone will be along with a good answer so I'm subscribing for the ride

Anyway, I have the 3.5-18x44 on my Tikka .300WM and love it. The small objective let me mount it with low rings which fits me well. It also has enough reach to probably see farther than I'll ever want to shoot.

Edit: Matt jumped in and that is what I was thinking but just couldn't put into words.

 

[Clarktar]

The 3.5-18 has 58 MOA total internal adjustment while the 5-25 has 43 MOA. They are limited due to the 1 inch tube.

Higher magnification scopes have less range of adjustment. The lenses that control the magnification are in the erector assembly and larger magnification scopes have larger erector assemblies, which take up more room in the tube, and therefore have less internal adjustment.

The solution for getting lots of adjustment from high magnification scopes is to have larger tubes, which is why many high magnification tactical scopes have large tubes like 34mm.

And I almost ask you directly! Thanks Matt. Larger tube equals heavier scope. Ugh. You are right about internal MOA adjustments values, I guess I was just dividing by 4 to get total MOA in inches..

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[choovhntr]

I could be off here so anybody who wants to correct me if I am feel free. Second focal plane scopes all calculate MOA at max power of the the scope. The amount of clicks between the two z5 scopes are probably the same but because the long range hunter has a higher max magnification which they measure MOA off of, it becomes less travel. For example, my reticle on my scope has hash marks and numbers for MOA 10, 20, etc. at. 22(max) power those numbers are correct. However if I dial to 11 power they double. 10 becomes 20 etc. The adverse effect happens when you add magnification. Nightforce specs are the same. 110 moa of travel for the 3.5-15 vs 100 moa for the 5.5-22.

 

[choovhntr]

Forgot to mention. When I'm saying MOA it's pretty much the same as the swaro specs of in@100yds they are using for amount of travel

 

[Matt Cashell]

I could be off here so anybody who wants to correct me if I am feel free. Second focal plane scopes all calculate MOA at max power of the the scope. The amount of clicks between the two z5 scopes are probably the same but because the long range hunter has a higher max magnification which they measure MOA off of, it becomes less travel. For example, my reticle on my scope has hash marks and numbers for MOA 10, 20, etc. at. 22(max) power those numbers are correct. However if I dial to 11 power they double. 10 becomes 20 etc. The adverse effect happens when you add magnification. Nightforce specs are the same. 110 moa of travel for the 3.5-15 vs 100 moa for the 5.5-22.

We are talking about the internal travel (clicks), not the reticle subtension. The clicks are the same no matter what power the scope is on. So a click at 5x is 1/4 MOA and a click at 25x is 1/4 MOA. The reticle subtensions do differ though on SFP scopes, as you mention. If you are measuring or holding with a SFP reticle, you need to be on the calibrated magnification (usually the max).

 

[choovhntr]

Thanks Matt. You guys must have replied while I was typing my novel. haha. You definitely made it easier understand and cleaned up my jumbled explanation. Never meant for it to sound like the click value would ever change from 1/4 ".

 

[Clarktar]

Great help and input, now, no thread is complete without the 1000.00 dollar question, which scope do I get?

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[WRO]

You want the 3.5x18, getting the 25, the sweet spot to look through for eye relief gets small. Get the brx reticle to add range.

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[colonel00]

I really like the Ballistic Turrets with the 4W reticle. The turrets are a personal preference thing for sure though as some folks don't like messing with them.

 

[mod700]

Great help and input, now, no thread is complete without the 1000.00 dollar question, which scope do I get?

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Same boat as you, looking at the Z5,... just witch reticle, looked through the brx, seemed a little busy, but imagine a guy would get use to it, you can enter your round, elevation, etc., and they will give you the yardages for the hold over points, have to verify of course. The 4w is appealing for dialing up, with basically moa. reference for wind hold.
Mike

 

[Travis Bertrand]

Z5 is on sale right now fwiw

 

[Clarktar]

Z5 is on sale right now fwiw

Copy that.

Gracias.

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[dotman]

I believe the Z5 sale is on for the entire year so no rush.

 

[Formidilosus]

I'll be the dissenter (as usual). I've used quite a few Swaro Z3's, Z5's and Z6's- none of them are reliable enough to use at LR. Swarovski's own testing showed that which is why they brought out the X5 series. Long range (or anytime you are shooting past MPBR) is about eliminating variables. Reliability, durability and correct functioning is paramount. Yes, there are people that use the Z5's to dial up for shots. Those people have also never actually tested those scopes to see how much variability there is in its functioning either.





Clarktar,

Whats the rifle you'll be using? Being that you are worried about weight, I'm going to guess that it's not a dedicated LR gun. For normal hunting rifles to be stretched out to some distance these three scopes have proven to work correctly and are still suitable for close shots while hunting- Bushnell 3-12x44mm LRHS, SWFA SS 6x42mm Mil quad, SWFA SS 3-9x42mm.

 

[dotman]

I'll be the dissenter (as usual). I've used quite a few Swaro Z3's, Z5's and Z6's- none of them are reliable enough to use at LR. Swarovski's own testing showed that which is why they brought out the X5 series. Long range (or anytime you are shooting past MPBR) is about eliminating variables. Reliability, durability and correct functioning is paramount. Yes, there are people that use the Z5's to dial up for shots. Those people have also never actually tested those scopes to see how much variability there is in its functioning either.





Clarktar,

Whats the rifle you'll be using? Being that you are worried about weight, I'm going to guess that it's not a dedicated LR gun. For normal hunting rifles to be stretched out to some distance these three scopes have proven to work correctly and are still suitable for close shots while hunting- Bushnell 3-12x44mm LRHS, SWFA SS 6x42mm Mil quad, SWFA SS 3-9x42mm.

My Hangup towards the Z3 & Z5 after using a Z3 last year, the turret only turns one full turn which will limit what you can dial. Secondly I've talked to a number of people that say consistent repeated dialing is not there on the Z3 & Z5. I didn't have any issue with consistent dialing and zero but the single turn imo defeats the purpose of having a dialable turret.

 

[Matt Cashell]

Those people have also never actually tested those scopes to see how much variability there is in its functioning either.

I am sure I don't do the volume of shooting you do, but I recently tested the 2.5-15x44 Z6, and it tracks perfectly ... so far. It also tracks with perfect 1/10 mils right to the end of the adjustment.

I previously tested a Z3 that tracked well too, although I don't dial up with that scope.

I use the Horus Vision CATS targets to measure reticle movement.

 

[Formidilosus]

How'd you check it? Once up/once down? How mils? Every mil? RTZ? Reticle shift, reticle drift? Etc.

 

[Formidilosus]

Wanted to add- I'm not saying that you don't have one that works, but that I've seen enough tested to say that one working truly correct would be an anomaly.