Zeiss or Maven?
- Thread starter Don Qui Puncher
- Start date
Josh Wright
WKR
Maven
Muley Buck
WKR
I too, am curious as to what the actual reality of all this is. Please Trial153 I am ready to learn and understand a different viewpoint concerning this.
amassi
WKR
- Joined
- May 26, 2018
- Messages
- 3,658
Pros of a direct to consumer model
- advertise for free on social media
- no infrastructure investment
- high profit margin by removing middleman (like vista outdoors)and retail markups, the company keeps the markup in house
- consumers generally like to buy niche products that are seen as custom, not off the shelf.
- robin hood syndrome, Americans love to support the underdog
- no time monitoring your product average sale, no reason to establish and enforce map pricing, dont have to monitor unsold inventory levels, no field reps to train and pay
- no need to pay retail associates incentive programs to hawk your optics
- at the end of the day, you make more for your product
- 10 employees can fill the role of hundreds
Cons
- pay more for raw material initially
- larger companies can freeze you out of supply by buying it up or contractually locking you out of purchase
- income can fluctuate seasonally
- sometimes you have to pre sell items for the capital to make those items(interest free loan from your "investors")
- volatile market, established brands will lose market share until it hurts their bottom line. Eventually the established company gets the hint and makes a new line that competes near the price point of the new guy ( nightforce shv comes to mind)
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- advertise for free on social media
- no infrastructure investment
- high profit margin by removing middleman (like vista outdoors)and retail markups, the company keeps the markup in house
- consumers generally like to buy niche products that are seen as custom, not off the shelf.
- robin hood syndrome, Americans love to support the underdog
- no time monitoring your product average sale, no reason to establish and enforce map pricing, dont have to monitor unsold inventory levels, no field reps to train and pay
- no need to pay retail associates incentive programs to hawk your optics
- at the end of the day, you make more for your product
- 10 employees can fill the role of hundreds
Cons
- pay more for raw material initially
- larger companies can freeze you out of supply by buying it up or contractually locking you out of purchase
- income can fluctuate seasonally
- sometimes you have to pre sell items for the capital to make those items(interest free loan from your "investors")
- volatile market, established brands will lose market share until it hurts their bottom line. Eventually the established company gets the hint and makes a new line that competes near the price point of the new guy ( nightforce shv comes to mind)
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Gatorgrizz27
WKR
At the “disposable” price point like the $300 Maven C1’s, I’d be tempted to try them. Once you approach the $1,000 level however, it’s an “investment” to me, and I want to know what I’m getting and have resale value if I ever upgrade to Swaros.
I have no issues with the direct to consumer business model, but I do think you get what you pay for with glass. I could be wrong, but I just don’t think the retail markup is so extreme that a $1,000 pair of binoculars costs $400 to produce.
A lot of the Vortex guys were initially very happy with their purchases, but after using them in the field for awhile have realized that they might fall short of alpha quality and are selling them off.
Companies do go out of business all the time, and unfortunately binoculars aren’t as universally serviceable as a tent or down jacket should you need it repaired.
IMO, you’re best served with a $200-$300 pair of binos if that’s all you can afford, then making the jump to $1,000-$1,500 Zeiss Conquest/Leica/Meopta Meostar/used Swaro SLC, then going to top of the line Swaro if you can afford it. Everything else seems like a waste of $ unless you have a particular issue like interpupilary distance, problems focusing, ergonomics, or sensitivities to CA, rolling ball, etc.
I have no issues with the direct to consumer business model, but I do think you get what you pay for with glass. I could be wrong, but I just don’t think the retail markup is so extreme that a $1,000 pair of binoculars costs $400 to produce.
A lot of the Vortex guys were initially very happy with their purchases, but after using them in the field for awhile have realized that they might fall short of alpha quality and are selling them off.
Companies do go out of business all the time, and unfortunately binoculars aren’t as universally serviceable as a tent or down jacket should you need it repaired.
IMO, you’re best served with a $200-$300 pair of binos if that’s all you can afford, then making the jump to $1,000-$1,500 Zeiss Conquest/Leica/Meopta Meostar/used Swaro SLC, then going to top of the line Swaro if you can afford it. Everything else seems like a waste of $ unless you have a particular issue like interpupilary distance, problems focusing, ergonomics, or sensitivities to CA, rolling ball, etc.
hodgeman
WKR
If I were going to drop serious coin...I'd get a Zeiss. A friend of mine just had his 30 year binos repaired at no charge. Alpha glass is alpha for a reason.
I get the appeal of the "direct to consumer" model...I also know from firsthand experience that it always isn't what it's supposed to be. Sometimes you get a great "value for money" and sometimes you get a mediocre product with a first class marketing plan. No direct experience with Maven so it could be either.
Of note- Maven doesn't really make anything, they hire others to make it for them...so in effect they haven't cut out the middle man...they are the middle man. That isn't exactly a bad thing...it's just a thing, but you aren't actually buying directly from the maker, you're buying from folks who had it made by someone else. They are an online retailer....no different than Cabelas selling their "Euro" optics line they have made by Meopta under contract.
I get the appeal of the "direct to consumer" model...I also know from firsthand experience that it always isn't what it's supposed to be. Sometimes you get a great "value for money" and sometimes you get a mediocre product with a first class marketing plan. No direct experience with Maven so it could be either.
Of note- Maven doesn't really make anything, they hire others to make it for them...so in effect they haven't cut out the middle man...they are the middle man. That isn't exactly a bad thing...it's just a thing, but you aren't actually buying directly from the maker, you're buying from folks who had it made by someone else. They are an online retailer....no different than Cabelas selling their "Euro" optics line they have made by Meopta under contract.
HookUp
WKR
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2015
- Messages
- 957
Everything I have seen made by maven looks huge.
Obi-wanshinobi
Lil-Rokslider
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2013
- Messages
- 229
My take on the direct to consumer model is for smaller companies to make higher profit margins. I don’t buy the better product for less money BS.
IMO, KUIU was the king of getting people to believe they were getting a good deal.
IMO, KUIU was the king of getting people to believe they were getting a good deal.
The guys who started Maven used to work for Brunton in their optics division but Maven and Brunton have no affiliation beyond that. Totally different companies.
All that said, I really like my Maven B.2's. They aren't for everyone as they are heavy and large for the 9x magnification but they are comfortable in my hands, have an awesome field of view, are clear and bright and that's what I want from my optics.
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That might be what you think the affiliation is, but the Maven spotters are the exact same as the Brunton Epochs. First time I saw the Maven spotter my first thought was "that's a rebadged Epoch". I used a Brunton spotter for years, and if I posted a pic of it with the Brunton covered, guys would ask which Maven it was.
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On the bright side it allowed us to buy up all the remaining inventory of the Brunton 3-9x40's and offer them for only $29.99
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