Points strategy

[TexanSam]

Alright guys, it's that time of year so I thought I'd let y'all see my points strategy I'm starting to use, and see if anybody has any suggestions.

I'm buying points starting this year in Wyoming, Colorado and Arizona, as per someone's advice here.

I have 4 points for the desert bighorn for my home state, and I will continue to apply for that (as if I actually have a chance)

Idaho is on my list for the future, but just don't have the money right now considering you have to buy the license and I'm still in college. I might also consider Nevada or Washington or Oregon but I'm not too knowledgeable on those states.

Hopefully with this plan someday I'll get a sheep in the lower 48. I'm 22 right now, and both my father and grandpa have kept their ability to stay in shape well past 60 and 70, hopefully I'll be in the same boat. With all that, what's everyone's thoughts?

 

[Beendare]

Sent you a PM....

 

[tam9492]

Interested in this too. I'm 24, midway through law school, and ready to start building points.

 

[NoWiser]

You are young, and having points won't hurt, but if you want to make sure you go on a sheep hunt, start saving for Alaska. Look at raffle tags, too, as they have as good of odds as the state draws often.

 

[Kimbersig]

research the difference in Bonus points and Preference points. Preference points will likely do you no good in a state like Wyoming. unless you want to wait till you are 80 to hunt even starting in your 20's. bonus points are your best bet. mathematically possible to draw with zero points in those states and with every year getting more points your odds go up that much more. I'd listen to NoWiser and start saving for a dall hunt in Alaska or Canada. if you pencil it out you probably spend over $1000 a year in applications fees and point fees and most likely will still wait 20 years to draw a tag. Wyoming has decent odds on the units that issue a random tag. Colorado is a good idea but you know you have to send in the full fee up front in the form of a check/money order. no credit cards for sheep moose or goats in Colorado. Arizona is a good one as most of their NR tags are issued in the random pools. I'd research Nevada more if I were you. and don't listen to everyone about Idaho being the best odds in the west. it is if you are a resident but not a NR. when you take into account that you have no idea which unit will have a NR tag in it you are spending a lot of money for a lot of uncertainty I don't know if its worth it IMO.

 

[johnsd16]

I'm a little older than you guys (34 currently) and did some research on this over the last couple of years and it is a bleak game. In states like WY the current point structure is such that for enough NR to draw off the point holders ahead of you will take a long long time. When we hear that you have 100% draw odds with 15 points, that does not mean you and I can buy points for 15 years then have 100% draw. The point pools are like a pyramid. There are 1000s of people that are 2, 4, or 6 or more points ahead of you now. They will always be, and would have to be drawn off, give up, or die for you to overtake them.

In WY you do have the minuscule chance of drawing the random draw tag(s) and someone has to, but those odds are tiny. Other states that are straight random (ID) you have as good a chance as anyone, but the chance is not good. Bonus point states and scenarios like CO where everyone with 3 points or more (or whatever it is now) have SOME chance to draw. I have am about to start a job where the cost of applying and such is not a problem, but I still won't do it. If you have the money, just pay to go on a hunt. I really would like the whole DIY or go with friends thing but for multiple guys in a group to get a tag is just woefully low. Again, not zero, and it happens every year, but it is a tough game that takes time and $$$$. If you literally did all the states that you can as a NR for sheep (desert, RM, and CA) it would be $1000s up front per year, losing several hundred $$ and poor odds.

If you are that young and not tied down and hunting is your thing, give serious thought to moving somewhere to achieve that. It was not a major factor of my choice, but it was certainly a plus when considering my move for a job. I had jobs in MN, MI, WI, IL, and ID. For a long list of reasons more than hunting I am going to ID, but will now have a dramatically better chance at hunting sheep in the lower 48 on a draw tag and can DIY if I want.

As others have said, raffle or auction tags are as good a way as any for NR to get lower 48 sheep hunts, for those who have the means. I like many dislike seeing more of the hunting go this way.

More power to you if you want to make a run at it, but listen to the advice from the guys who got in at the ground level or are currently in the front/middle of the pack (not me) as they know how the game is laid out. There are several on the various message boards. It is exciting and fun to plan, but the reality is that sheep hunting as a NR is very tough.

 

[WRO]

Alright guys, it's that time of year so I thought I'd let y'all see my points strategy I'm starting to use, and see if anybody has any suggestions.

I'm buying points starting this year in Wyoming, Colorado and Arizona, as per someone's advice here.

I have 4 points for the desert bighorn for my home state, and I will continue to apply for that (as if I actually have a chance)

Idaho is on my list for the future, but just don't have the money right now considering you have to buy the license and I'm still in college. I might also consider Nevada or Washington or Oregon but I'm not too knowledgeable on those states.

Hopefully with this plan someday I'll get a sheep in the lower 48. I'm 22 right now, and both my father and grandpa have kept their ability to stay in shape well past 60 and 70, hopefully I'll be in the same boat. With all that, what's everyone's thoughts?

Oregon is easy, no points and they list the nr open units in the synopsis every year. odds still are long, but better than not applying.

 

[TexanSam]

Hey now a guy can dream right?

I thought of a way to justify this dumb obsession.

1. Use money from tax refund each year to help offset cost of applications

2. When I do not draw in every state that I put it, transfer refunded money into an IRA or purchase stocks or something of that matter

3. Eat ramen noodles to save money and take up painting to Cope with the fact that I have a problem lmao

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[Jimss]

I'd first scratch Wyo off your list! It is mighty expensive to apply each year and your hardly have any chance of ever drawing. I'd likely switch over to Idaho where everyone has slim to 0 chance. If you want to go sheep hunting possibly go hunt them every year in the unlimited Montana units or move to Alaska and hunt dall sheep every year. It seems like the price of applying is increasing in many states which is slowly but surely taking me (and many others) out of the draws.

 

[Jimss]

Forgot to mention, another great option is to save up your cash and go on "poor man's" sheep hunts such as aoudad or other free ranging sheep scattered across the country...and world! If it costs $200 to $1,000 to apply for several sheep states/year ...multiply that by 10 or 20 years and you could go on a bunch of great trips! Sheep are incredible to hunt but it costs a lot to apply plus you have to over come outrageous draw odds to draw nonres sheep tags in your lifetime! Most sheep draw odds are less than 1%. If you think about, 1% chance would be 1 in 100 years...and getting worse every year as more and more guys apply. Someone has to draw but reality will set in once you start forking out $100 to $200+/state/year tossing your $ to the wind!

 

[TexanSam]

Wait guys, My brother is a resident of Alberta. He is a novice hunter and his soon to be brother on laws up there are avid mountain hunters Maybe there's some strings to be pulled there....

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[PresTex]

Gonna have to follow this thread. Trying to devise a plan to start building points from now on. Been listening to podcasts with outfitters and looking around online trying to find units in various states that will allow a non resident to draw a tag in a couple years time and have a decent shot at killing a nice animal. Having spent all my life in Texas it's been a bit overwhelming trying to figure things out but I look forward to hunting out west. Im 24 so I've got time but I know I need to get on it if I ever wanna be able to draw sheep tag or get in on one of the trophy units.

TexanSam, are you still in Texas? If so, what part? Always looking for hunting buddies.


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[TexanSam]

Gonna have to follow this thread. Trying to devise a plan to start building points from now on. Been listening to podcasts with outfitters and looking around online trying to find units in various states that will allow a non resident to draw a tag in a couple years time and have a decent shot at killing a nice animal. Having spent all my life in Texas it's been a bit overwhelming trying to figure things out but I look forward to hunting out west. Im 24 so I've got time but I know I need to get on it if I ever wanna be able to draw sheep tag or get in on one of the trophy units.

TexanSam, are you still in Texas? If so, what part? Always looking for hunting buddies.


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Right now stephenville but with graduation approaching I might relocate.

 

[Ohio Darin]

These are a little dated and lengthy reads but contain a lot of good info......

Sheep Hunting on a Budget

Sheep Hunting on a Budget Vol II

 

[Kimbersig]

Gonna have to follow this thread. Trying to devise a plan to start building points from now on. Been listening to podcasts with outfitters and looking around online trying to find units in various states that will allow a non resident to draw a tag in a couple years time and have a decent shot at killing a nice animal. Having spent all my life in Texas it's been a bit overwhelming trying to figure things out but I look forward to hunting out west. Im 24 so I've got time but I know I need to get on it if I ever wanna be able to draw sheep tag or get in on one of the trophy units.

TexanSam, are you still in Texas? If so, what part? Always looking for hunting buddies.


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I just finished putting all my applications in for the year so i'll give you guys a little bit of reality if you are wanting to get into the sheep game. I apply in NM, UT, WY, MT, ID, and NV for sheep and goats plus a scattering of deer, elk, antelope...which if you are buying licenses to apply you might as well try and pull a tag for other species. just in those few states my out of pocket non refundable cost for licenses and application fees is just over $1000 per year. However, right now I have right around $13,000 sitting on my credit card to cover the upfront cost of paying for the full license fee up front that several of the states require. WY is raising point and license fees next year which may go ahead and push me out of applying in WY. its only going to get more expensive to apply as a NR so you might want to seriously look at what your realistic odds of drawing in the next 20 years would be and instead of paying over a grand a year for tag soup work harder and go guided in AK or Canada. the math works out much more favorably if you go that direction. the other good option is buying raffle tickets from the WSF and its chapters. typically they have $100 raffles with only 200-500 tickets sold.

 

[PresTex]

Right now stephenville but with graduation approaching I might relocate.

Im in Austin. If you're ever in the area hit me up. Ive got some property on the llano river we can do some hunting and fishing on. Just sold our place out in west tx unfortunately. Otherwise we could have gone and chased some aoudad.

I just finished putting all my applications in for the year so i'll give you guys a little bit of reality if you are wanting to get into the sheep game. I apply in NM, UT, WY, MT, ID, and NV for sheep and goats plus a scattering of deer, elk, antelope...which if you are buying licenses to apply you might as well try and pull a tag for other species. just in those few states my out of pocket non refundable cost for licenses and application fees is just over $1000 per year. However, right now I have right around $13,000 sitting on my credit card to cover the upfront cost of paying for the full license fee up front that several of the states require. WY is raising point and license fees next year which may go ahead and push me out of applying in WY. its only going to get more expensive to apply as a NR so you might want to seriously look at what your realistic odds of drawing in the next 20 years would be and instead of paying over a grand a year for tag soup work harder and go guided in AK or Canada. the math works out much more favorably if you go that direction. the other good option is buying raffle tickets from the WSF and its chapters. typically they have $100 raffles with only 200-500 tickets sold.

Appreciate the insight. I don't think I am going to chase the sheep thing very hard. I just want to kill some nice elk, mule deer, moose, and antelope and if I can draw a goat or sheep eventually that'd be great. Im thinking I will find a few places to put in for tags every year and leave it at that.

 

[jray5740]

Hello all!!! New to the forum but have been following the threads for quite sometime. I have applied again this year for Colorado and Montana Bighorn. Currently have 3 preference and 8 weighted for Colorado and 4 Bonus points for Montana. Many have drawn in Colorado with my points, and many have waited years longer than where I am at. In Colorado they have what is called the hybrid drawing, in which the highest points applicants are all placed in the drawing, and then there is a separate drawing for people with less points for the same tag. In essence, the way it is explained is that it allows applicants with less points the opportunity to draw a tag they would otherwise have no chance of drawing. I don't agree with this system, unless it works out for me haha, but overall I find it unfair. The most points should draw and so on.

Anyway in Montana, they have bonus points in which every year an applicant is unsuccessful in the draw, the next year they have more chances entered in the drawing than the previous year as long as the applicant paid the extra $20 for the bonus point. If you apply and don't buy the bonus point, then you have no points for the next year. In essence, this system is equal for every applicant, although the applicants with more bonus points have more entries into the drawing. I like this system although it is entirely possible that a applicant with 50+ years may never draw where as in Colorado you most likely would. Although all things equal I would MUCH rather hunt Montana than Colorado. I have hunted Colorado for many years and you get run over with hikers, outdoors enthusiasts, ATV riders, and campers year round so secluded hunting is difficult to find. I read a story of a young boy who drew the most caveated Montana Big Horn tag with his first year of application.

Hope this explains a little and happy to be part of the forum!!!

 

[ckleeves]

Hello all!!! New to the forum but have been following the threads for quite sometime. I have applied again this year for Colorado and Montana Bighorn. Currently have 3 preference and 8 weighted for Colorado and 4 Bonus points for Montana. Many have drawn in Colorado with my points, and many have waited years longer than where I am at. In Colorado they have what is called the hybrid drawing, in which the highest points applicants are all placed in the drawing, and then there is a separate drawing for people with less points for the same tag. In essence, the way it is explained is that it allows applicants with less points the opportunity to draw a tag they would otherwise have no chance of drawing. I don't agree with this system, unless it works out for me haha, but overall I find it unfair. The most points should draw and so on.

Anyway in Montana, they have bonus points in which every year an applicant is unsuccessful in the draw, the next year they have more chances entered in the drawing than the previous year as long as the applicant paid the extra $20 for the bonus point. If you apply and don't buy the bonus point, then you have no points for the next year. In essence, this system is equal for every applicant, although the applicants with more bonus points have more entries into the drawing. I like this system although it is entirely possible that a applicant with 50+ years may never draw where as in Colorado you most likely would. Although all things equal I would MUCH rather hunt Montana than Colorado. I have hunted Colorado for many years and you get run over with hikers, outdoors enthusiasts, ATV riders, and campers year round so secluded hunting is difficult to find. I read a story of a young boy who drew the most caveated Montana Big Horn tag with his first year of application.

Hope this explains a little and happy to be part of the forum!!!

Might want to check into how the Colorado sheep draw works again...

 

[jray5740]

View attachment 49826

Hello. Thank you for correcting me on this. I did some more research and the Hybrid drawing only works for very specific Elk, Deer, and Pronghorn units. You can reference the hybrid drawing on page 7 of the Big game brochure. I'm not sure if the above link will work but it is a screen capture of the hybrid drawing. For years I have always assumed it worked that way for Big Horn/Goat as well. Especially since my uncle has drawn 2 Big Horn on lower than usual points, my cousin has drawn his Big Horn with 5 weighted, and his dad drew with 3 weighted. In the unit they have drawn, there were plenty of applicants with many more weighted points that didn't draw.

Looking at last years draw stats, the hybrid theory seemed to be supported by the fact that most tags don't go to the applicants with higher weighted points than others. Anyway, thanks for correcting me, now I have a conversation piece for the 15 hour car ride to Texas next weekend for Hog Hunting!

 

[jray5740]

View attachment 49827

Example if interested. It may not be the hybrid drawing, but can someone explain how this happens cause I clearly do not haha Thanks!!