Dall Sheep in Talkeetna Mountains Test Positive for Deadly Foreign Pathogen

AK Shane

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
277
Location
Alaska
If the goats on the Kenai Peninsula are testing positive then the Kenai sheep are positive as well. There is large mixing of sheep and goat on the Kenai. There's multiple places you can glass sheep and goats scattered across the same mountain side. That is, what sheep are left on the Kenai. They have already seen major decline due to bad winters and other factors.

The Talkeetna's are a highway and a river crossing away from the famous dall sheep of the Chugach Mtns. Don't know how many sheep make the crossing but I'm sure it happens. I would also imagine there are goats crossing from the upper Kenai to the Chugach around Portage and Whittier. Within 15 miles from Portage the goat country turns into sheep country and you see intermingling.

The bios all say they don't know exactly what the effects Movi will have on the thin horns but I don't think you need to be a biologist to conclude it won't be good and could possibly be catastrophic.
 

BRWNBR

WKR
Joined
Feb 11, 2015
Messages
740
This is from another forum. Thought I’d paste it here.

copied this from a friend. Dr. Gerlach is the state vet.
"This is an overview of the information I requested from Dr. Gerlach yesterday. I'm going to post it here, and in a new thread of it's own. Currently the prevalence rate for Movi in domestic sheep and goats is about 4% as determined by the study our office has sponsored. The initial results from ADFG show 4 positive of 136 Dall Sheep submitted by hunters (3%) and 2 positive with 3 highly suspect out of 39 Mt Goats submitted samples from live capture goats that were collared for ID (12%) prevalence. These animals were not showing any signs of illness. There has been no reports of morbidity/mortality, decreased birth rates, or declines in these populations from ADFG surveillance and monitoring, hunters or outdoor enthusiasts hiking in the areas.

The initial report from ADFG indicates that there are several strains of Movi that have been identified from both domestic and wild animals. There is still more to come from this analysis as genomic sequencing is a tedious process. At this time there is no indication of any harmful effects of this pathogen on either domestic or wildlife populations. Some of this information may initially look different from what would be expected from what occurred in the lower 48. So let's compare these 2 wildlife populations:

1) Wild sheep populations (Big Horn sheep) across the lower 48 were at record lows in the 1960s, about 18,000 but have increased in numbers dramatically to over 85,000 in 2014. The habitat for these animals has decreased over this same time period due to urban expansion and anthropogenic development. The result is crowding of the growing big horn populations to a smaller habitat. Another compounding factor is the impact of drought over this area for the last 10 years that has caused a tremendous stress on these animals (heat stress, lack of water, lack of browse). The focus has been on the interaction of these big horn with domestic sheep and goat grazing on public (BLM) lands. You can imagine as habitat is diminished and grazing/browsing is decreased by drought these wild population will be having increased interaction with livestock on grazing land as the wild sheep are searching for food sources. The result of all these stressors has resulted in sporadic morbidity/mortality events in big horn populations.

2) Alaskan wild life by comparison have much broader habitat that has been maintained with less anthropogenic impact and a better grazing and food sources. There are a smaller number of domestic sheep and goats which are raised on farms confined and no grazing on public lands at this time. ADFG has carefully managed these wild sheep and goat populations and I stress has not reported any significant morbidity/mortality events, decreased birth rates, or declines in these populations from its surveillance and monitoring. The situation in Alaska is very different than what is occurring in the lower 48.

As there is no indication of any immediate harm to domestic or wildlife populations, this is a time to gather more information and data about this pathogen and make decisions based on science and not fear or emotion. Rash or drastic action is not indicated such as the proposed action of culling wildlife populations that have had + tests for Movi. There have been previous attempts to control TB, brucellosis, Chronic Wasting Disease infections in wildlife populations and even Movi infected big horn populations by culling. These have not been successful in eliminating the pathogen and resulted in a great expenditure of funds and doing more harm than good.

There is much we do not know or understand about the Alaskan situation. It would appear that we need to determine If the strains of Movi found here are different in wildlife and domestic populations, different from the strains found in the lower 48, and if the wildlife populations here may have acclimated to these strains. Do the exposed wildlife here have an immunity to more pathogenic or virulent strains of Movi? To understand the epidemiology of this pathogen (Movi) we also need to sample other populations of sheep and goats across the state to see if they have been exposed and to determine the prevalence in these different groups. If other populations are affected how did they get exposed, what other species of animals may be a vector or carrier of this pathogen and be capable of spreading the Movi. The questions keep piling up; we need more information so the state agencies involved in managing domestic animal health and wildlife health can make a thorough evaluation and make proper management changes.

ADFG is doing a tremendous job collecting samples for analysis and making plans for increased surveillance during the upcoming hunting season. We need to increase our surveillance of domestic livestock over 2018 and I believe that HB 315/SB 164 will help with this collection of samples and will increase voluntary reporting of sick or dead livestock."
And there you have it. An educated opinion from someone who knows what they are talking about.
 

AK Shane

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
277
Location
Alaska
Thanks BRWNBR, Good info. I just saw another F&G release that showed they have detected Movi in units 12, 13A, 20A, 25C, 26B, and 26C, and in mountain goats in 15B. That covers a significant amount of the sheep territory in the state. With that much coverage I would conclude that some strain of Movi has been present in Alaska for quite a few years. Our sheep populations have been decreasing over the years but I see weather and food sources as more of a contributing factor than disease.

What I need everyone to do is NOT to go sheep hunting this year. Stay at home! I'll go hit the mountains on foot and do a thorough sheep count, packing my rifle for bear protection of course:), and report back with my findings.
 
Joined
Nov 3, 2017
Messages
1,456
Location
AK
"this is a time to gather more information and data about this pathogen and make decisions based on science and not fear or emotion"

Bingo. There is obviously still a lot to learn about this. I've seen this disease beat on LOTS of bighorns and it is very concerning to me. However, more data still needs to be obtained for thinhorns. Until then, everyone needs to recognize this as a potential issue. On the other hand, people that are rightfully concerned need to let our biologists and vets do their work. I send my dues to the AK WSF, and it rubbed me wrong when they start asking me to e-mail legislatures. We don't need politicians making decisions about ANY issues based off emotional e-mails. These types of emotional emails are how grizzly hunting and lion hunting gets banned. These decisions need to be science-based - that goes for all sides. We hire biologists to work with politicians. We will regret jamming a wedge between sheep hunters and ag producers down the road. Let the information develop and let's work with the ag community if or when the time comes.
 

MtGomer

WKR
Joined
Dec 18, 2016
Messages
326
Location
Montana —-> AZ
"this is a time to gather more information and data about this pathogen and make decisions based on science and not fear or emotion"

Bingo. There is obviously still a lot to learn about this. I've seen this disease beat on LOTS of bighorns and it is very concerning to me. However, more data still needs to be obtained for thinhorns. Until then, everyone needs to recognize this as a potential issue. On the other hand, people that are rightfully concerned need to let our biologists and vets do their work. I send my dues to the AK WSF, and it rubbed me wrong when they start asking me to e-mail legislatures. We don't need politicians making decisions about ANY issues based off emotional e-mails. These types of emotional emails are how grizzly hunting and lion hunting gets banned. These decisions need to be science-based - that goes for all sides. We hire biologists to work with politicians. We will regret jamming a wedge between sheep hunters and ag producers down the road. Let the information develop and let's work with the ag community if or when the time comes.

The time for this was 40 years ago.

Today it is time to do something.

It may not yet be clear how the disease will affect thin horns, but it couldn’t be more clear how they got it to begin with, and it should have never happened.
This was entirely preventable but happened due to this reactive instead of proactive, kick the can down the road, wait-and-see approach that you are championing.

We will regret sitting idly by with millions upon millions of dollars and thousands of members and thousands more non members that want to do something, while 1/4 of the wild sheep in North America struggle from disease, to appease a small, entitled and selfish handful of hobby farmers( not ag producers).

WSF has said they’d pay for domestic testing. Legislators should require it immediately.
 

Bambistew

WKR
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
391
Location
Alaska
Virtually everything written in Dr. Gerlach's bullet number one is wrong, and total BS. He is looking out for the hobby farmers and ag business, way before any hunters.

Good for you Brownbear... sit and wait. The first hunters to get the ax will be your bread and butter clients.
 

BRWNBR

WKR
Joined
Feb 11, 2015
Messages
740
Virtually everything written in Dr. Gerlach's bullet number one is wrong, and total BS. He is looking out for the hobby farmers and ag business, way before any hunters.

Good for you Brownbear... sit and wait. The first hunters to get the ax will be your bread and butter clients.


Not sure I understand the point of that personal jab there.

I’ve learned more about this disease in the last week than I’d ever knew about in a lifetime. Arcticles flying left and right, information consumed, emotions flaring. Then someone says so and so is way off base, hmmm now who do we believe?!
Do we write letters to people to try and get something done? Send money to agencies? Cull off sheep? Take samples of dead ones?!. Anyone have the answer? Crap. Does anyone have the FACTS? Crap. Does anyone have accurate information that a judgment and course of action can be taken from? Crap.
Often when a fire springs up there’s lots of smoke. Creates panic, there’s a fire under there but no one can see it thru all the smoke. Take a minute, figure out what’s really going on, rushing right in isn’t always the best course of action. Forgive me if my reaction doesn’t jive with what you think I should be doing.


My bread and butter huh? 2 Sheep hunts a year and some years no Sheep hunts isn’t hardly bread and butter.
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
75
I get that they are getting m.ovi from livestock, so does that mean it's being passed on from people taking horses into the backcountry? Haven't actually seen any info on how its being passed on. Ive only seen info on where its coming from.
 

Bambistew

WKR
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
391
Location
Alaska
The state vet is looking out for the ag business first and foremost. How much experience or knowledge do you really think he has about L48 wild sheep? His bullet point is right out of the "insert state" wool growers association handbook, and the argument they use against restoring wild sheep.

First there is basically no more available wild sheep habitat because of domestic sheep/goat presence. Without them, we could have 4-5x as many or more. Second there is about 70% fewer domestic sheep/goats in the L48 than there was in the 60's, and they are not "competing" for space with wild sheep. Keeping wild sheep away from domestic animals is the only reason we have any wild sheep. That is the stupidest comment I've seen made on this issue. Yeah, lets let them compete for the same resources on the same mountain... that will equal dead wild sheep every time.

What we know, the disease is from domestic animals, specifically sheep or goats.
How it was passed to them, is anyone's guess, and I doubt we'll ever know how it happened.
Movi has a very small presence in the domestic animals tested in AK, which means it could very easily be eradicated from the domestic flock, which would reduce one point of potential transfer.
Now that its confirmed to be in the wild, we know that the supposed "safeguards" and proximity to domestics/wild sheep failed to work.

How much simpler could it be? You are either for wild sheep or you're against them. Sitting around and waiting and watching is how we have it in our herds today.

There are about 3x as many sheep hunters every year in Alaska than there are domestic sheep owners... yet the state wants to let the minority run the process?

You're right I shouldn't have said bread and butter... more like gravy? It won't take much for this to show up in your sheep spot, it was found about 30 mines away... but hey, if you're not worried, the rest of us shouldn't be either.
 
Top