Billy Behavior and characteristics

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Mar 30, 2012
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So I have been trying to help my friend with his mt.goat hunt, we have been scouting every weekend for the last month and a half. While we have been seeing a lot of goats it seems the more I see the more unsure I become of what I'm looking at as far as age and sex. I have done the Alaska and Colorado quiz things and I feel pretty good about my abilities to distinguish a billy from a nanny.....until I get on the mountain and start looking at them. I have read about differences in size and shape of horns, the way they pee differently, the hump a mature billy should have, the stain, etc.etc.
Our first scouting trip we seen two large groups, a group of like 22 that we were within 400 yards of and another group of about 28 that was too far to really analize horns. In the first group I didn't recognize any as being a mature billy, in the second group one of the goats seemed to have a considerably larger body than the others but like I said we were too far away to tell what the horns looked like.

I guess I am looking for any information that will help me single out a big billy.

What surprised me about this first trip is that I was expecting to find big billies by their selves or with a few other billies, not in large groups.

On our last trip we seen many groups of two, three which turned out to be nanny w/ kid, a group of five which appeared to be a nanny a kid and 3 young billies. In these groups the kid was eating from the nanny which is the only reason I know they were nannys. we did spot one solo goat bedded we watched it until it stood and when it did it stretched out like a billy supposedly pees, but we couldn't tell if it was actually peeing or just stretching. It did also appear to have more massive horns than everything else we have been seeing. I am 97% sure this was a mature billy.

So out of approximately 120 goats that I have looked at this summer, only one I am truly confident in calling a mature billy. Does this sound about right? Granted not all were close enough to really tell but I thought it would be easier to really distinguish.

Should I be ignoring groups of 15+ goats, and looking for singles and small groups? Thanks for any help.
 

muleman

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I felt a lot like you last year.

While the hair is short, look for the scrotum and pay attention to horns. This should help build confidence with on the hoof identification between billy and nanny.

Body size, face length, roman nose (horse face). Helped me judge mature animals.
 

Buster

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Good chance the big group you looked over may not have held a mature billy. Just keep up with the scouting. The more you look at them, the easier it'll get. We rely on several features to determine sex, but the horns, glands behind them, and shape of their face (the old-timers always say to "look for a jughead") are what we generally focus on. This allows me to concentrate on the head. Then, if he/she gets up and starts moving, I can use other body features to reinforce my judgment. Make sure you have good glass.

There are guys on here with heaps more experience than me, hope they can chime in on their methods.
 

tater

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Buster hit most of the points above: horns/glands and the jughead.
Once they get a little longer hair, the billies have the discoloured rear quarters (yellowish-tan depending on dust composition). Urination posture is still the sure key to identification.

I have never seen mature billies with family groups until the snow flies and rut hits, but others say they have. Big old billies tend to be like mature mule deer bucks and bull elk: they are in the nastier more isolated places.
 

bkondeff

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Jun 8, 2012
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Have you read the book, "A Beast the Color of Winter"? It explains in great detail a lot about the social structure of Mt Goats, which is a lot different than most.

Now that said, I have read more about how much different translplanted populations in places like Utah and Colo are than those like we have here in Idaho. No groups of 22 here.

Clearly based on the link Ron posted, there are great variations depending on what region you hunt.

PS Rizzy, love to hear how your scouting is going over to the west of my unit. I've only gone once so far and heading back either this weekend or next.
 

tuffcity

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Maybe try to narrow the habitat. The Billy's like to be alone in more rugged areas?

I wouldn't stand by that. The goat my wife shot last year was a decent billie and we took it off of rolling terrain whereas the group of nannies with kids that we saw where all perched on the steep slopes.

RC
 

Rizzy

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I wouldn't stand by that. The goat my wife shot last year was a decent billie and we took it off of rolling terrain whereas the group of nannies with kids that we saw where all perched on the steep slopes.

RC

Thats exactly what the data in the EOL suggests. The nannies stay in more of the steep rugged terrain because it offers close escape cover for the kids. Even after reading that I'm still checking out all the more rugged goat terrain hoping to find a mature billy, it's a hard habit for me to break :)
 

Rizzy

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Have you read the book, "A Beast the Color of Winter"? It explains in great detail a lot about the social structure of Mt Goats, which is a lot different than most.

Now that said, I have read more about how much different translplanted populations in places like Utah and Colo are than those like we have here in Idaho. No groups of 22 here.

Clearly based on the link Ron posted, there are great variations depending on what region you hunt.

PS Rizzy, love to hear how your scouting is going over to the west of my unit. I've only gone once so far and heading back either this weekend or next.

Same here, one trip for goat so far and heading out next weekend :)
I think I found one small Billy, but it was too far away and on the move to really tell. I'm going to focus more on the north slopes next time. It seems like the billys are the ones that have small horns from a distance because they don't stick up as far like the nanny. They get lost in the hair.
 

tuffcity

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If you look at the terrain in this pic (last years goat) you can see how uncharacteristic it is of "traditional", or what people think of as traditional, goat habitat. But that's where we've usually found billies. Mind you they are non-pressured animals. He was with another similar sized billy and they had beds above the greenery and a well beaten trail system along the tops of the ridges. No death defying, cling to the rocks by your finger nails type of hunting!

Hwithgoat2-s_zpsff122b76.jpg


You can see how dirty he is from laying in the shale.

RC
 

Vids

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I agree with the recommendation about "A Beast the Color of Winter". That helped me a lot, it's more of a biology based book but it helps you understand herd dynamics and behavior.

I asked the same exact question in 2012. I had always heard the billies hung out solo but in my scouting I saw several large groups with mature billies mixed in with nannies and kids. When I shot mine it was three mature billies together on a gentle slope. In short, don't rule out any terrain or group is what I learned. Good luck, that was one of my favorite hunts!
 
OP
Broken Compass
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Mar 30, 2012
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Utah
Thanks for all of the replies. As far as terrain goes, our unit is pretty small and only a small portion of that holds goats. We have been focusing on the two most rugged spots in the unit, which are the only spots I believe they live. There just isn't a lot of goat country in our unit.
 
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