Draw blood/punch your tag?

gauge · Sep 22, 2014

I shot a bull Thursday morning. The arrow looked great, and the shot looked good, although it was a touch back. I never questioned it, in my mind it was a kill.
We gave the bull 3 hours, and a LONG story/time later I was standing at 10000 ft ready to puke and looking for a cliff to jump off.
I did not find my bull, but in my mind my tag was punched. My 2014 elk season that I put so much into was over. I am 90% sure that the bull will die, but even knowing how tough elk are, I do not feel right continuing a hunt, possibly killing 2 bulls. I am not looking for a pat on the back here, but I was really surprised of the others around the unit we spoke with that told me I was crazy. Many gave examples of them or friends that were in the same circumstances. They were still hunting or already shot another bull.

It may not be against the law, and "Who will ever know?", but this is not the way I believe we should hunt. What are we telling others if we continue to hunt after arrowing an elk. All probably have RMEF stickers on their windows and proclaim “hunting IS conservation”. I am not trying to put myself in another level than these other hunters or try to seem better than them, but I was surprised at how many people thought I was out of my mind. They never considered that I would pack up and go home.

Did I want to keep hunting? YES
I was into elk, and they were HOT. I know with the 5 days I had left I could have arrowed another bull, but killing a 340 would not take the taste of failure out of my mouth. In my mind, you draw blood, you punch your elk tag.

What is everyone's policy on this?

Bar · Sep 22, 2014

I've been lucky, and never lost an elk. I've thought about it though, and I would do just as you did. Did you find the arrow? Was there a blood trail that went dry? Give us more details on your search?

Randle · Sep 22, 2014

This a very personal decision and your choice will be so different than others. You cannot expect that others will have the same values. If I were to find that elk days later I would punch the tag until then I continue to hunt. Elk are tough animals and can live thru quite a bit. I have been fortunate to not be in your boat , but have hunted with others that have lost elk and found them later and did not punch the tag their choice not mine and they have to live with the choice. I try not to judge it but I dont agree with it.

5MilesBack · Sep 22, 2014

There is no "policy" on this. As a game warden once told me, "Some believe that once you draw blood your hunt is over, but I don't believe that. I believe that your tag entitles you to take an animal home, and until your tag is placed on an animal.......you keep hunting." And he was an American Indian. As long as you put in a "reasonable effort" to find your animal, that's all that's required by law. Now, I'm sure reasonable effort could be interpreted in different ways.

This just comes down to a personal choice. If you want to quit hunting, that's fine. If you want to keep hunting, that's fine too. It's all up to the individual.

William Hanson (live2hunt) · Sep 22, 2014

While I am sure in principal the OP is right, I don't know for sure what I would do in that situation. As was mentioned elk or any deer for that matter are tough and can survive a lot. I have personally shot whitetail that had no blood trail until I got to the animal 200 yards away dead. So in that case the same principal should apply to every shot taken on an animal that you're "sure" is good, right? I've also had huge blood dumps for 600 yards on whitetail that walked away from it. In that case punching my tag would have been stupid because the animal survived. Some outfitters say draw blood and your done but that is up to them.

mtnwrunner · Sep 22, 2014

Gauge, not that my opinion matters but I think you made the right choice and your choice is the only one that matters. If you are fairly certain that the animal will die, I feel that one should use their tag on that animal. If it is a shot where you are confident that the animal will survive, I.E.---cut hair, poor penetration, flesh wound, I would be okay with continuing to hunt. I know a guy that last year shot 4 different bulls, did not get one of them and continued to hunt. Drives me batshit crazy and I told him so. As the saying goes, ethics are what you do when no one else is around. Sorry to hear about your hunt but I'm glad you didn't jump off the cliff............

Randy

Shrek · Sep 22, 2014

Wounding loss is in the management plan. It's only human arrogance that believes that the bull went to waste. Nothing was wasted in nature it was only your efforts that were not rewarded. Everything from scavenging carnivores to microbes feasted from your efforts. I don't condone wreckless shot choices or minimal recovery efforts but if you have done your best then keep hunting.

William Hanson (live2hunt) · Sep 22, 2014

mtnwrunner said:
I know a guy that last year shot 4 different bulls, did not get one of them and continued to hunt.

Randy

Time for that guy to throw in the towel and take up golf. One bad shot is one thing but four damn!

gauge · Sep 22, 2014

Bar,
Yes, I found the arrow. The arrow was covered in blood and it looked great. Lost blood after the bull broke into the open because he started clotting. I believe it was a liver the way he was able to walk. The shot looked to be lung but obviously it was not.

To be clear guys, I don't believe that shots that we know are not fatal should result in a tag. I know things happen when archery hunting.
I also believe that it is our responsibility to be conservationist. I blew the shot. It was a chip shot and I rushed it. I should have been able to make a ethical quick kill. Because that bull was able to get into an area that I lost blood, should not give me that right to shoot another one.

Again, I am not judging others. I just wanted to compare others' policies.

Randle · Sep 22, 2014

Nothing wrong with asking opinions , You sound like a very ethical hunter. we need more of that.

Shrek · Sep 22, 2014

Are you going to continue to eat ? Your family ? If so then another living thing will be consumed. If you do not continue to hunt then you are simply having someone else kill something for you. You are a predator and you kill other things to live. Do wolves quit hunting when they wound prey but don't recover it ? How about lions ? Only difference is they can't delegate their substance in exchange for other work. In the end a certain amount of lifewill end so tthat you may continue.

Btw , the Indian word for bad hunter is vegetarian and at some point if you are too inefficient at hunting you need to exchange the work you are good at for food but one bad shot is not that level of incompetence ....four might be though...?..

Bar · Sep 22, 2014

Shrek said:
Are you going to continue to eat ? Your family ? If so then another living thing will be consumed. If you do not continue to hunt then you are simply having someone else kill something for you. You are a predator and you kill other things to live. Do wolves quit hunting when they wound prey but don't recover it ? How about lions ? Only difference is they can't delegate their substance in exchange for other work. In the end a certain amount of lifewill end so tthat you may continue.

Don't try and convince someone with different ethics than you to do it your way. State what you would do, and let it go. That's all he asked for.

gauge · Sep 22, 2014

Shrek,
That is an interesting view. I will be able to eat deer, and will go a long way before starving.
Justifying in the way that you do would justify poaching. If you are hungry, something needs to get shot. Who cares what season it is.
I respect other opinions on this but yours is a bit extreme. This a responsibility that comes with being a hunter. Conservation and game management is very important to our future. We can not compare ourselves to wolves and kill an elk whenever we get hungry. Ask some ranchers in MT or ID how they feel about the hunting ethics of a wolf. I have only one elk tag and is how Fish and Game manage herds.

William Hanson (live2hunt) · Sep 22, 2014

Bar said:
Don't try and convince someone with different ethics than you to do it your way. State what you would do, and let it go. That's all he asked for.

There's a new sheriff in town.

Bar · Sep 22, 2014

live2hunt said:
There's a new sheriff in town.

There's a new troll in town.

Shrek · Sep 22, 2014

Not trying to convince anyone. If it's in the management plan then I'm fine with whatever situational moral relativity you wish to endulge in. We are talking about a situation where you have already decided to make your substance a sport for your enjoyment and chosen a less sure weapon because it makes it harder and therefore more challenging. The moral quandary is the luxury of our ridiculously wealthy society.

William Hanson (live2hunt) · Sep 22, 2014

Bar said:
There's a new troll in town.

Not trolling, just making a point. Shrek was expressing his views and reasoning behind them and you decided to police this thread and tell him what not to do. Who made you the Rokslide police? If you don't agree with Shrek that's fine, I don't, but to dictate what he can post and how he decides to convey his message (as long as he is sticking to the subject and following Rokslide terms of use) is a bit bully like.

Anyway back on track. I think shreks view is a bit extreme as well. To say that nothing goes to waste so keep hunting if left unchecked would promote a wanton disregard for conservation efforts. That kind of thinking could easily translate into a hunter killing an animal that wasn't as big as he wanted and leaving it lie because "nothing goes to waste in the woods" and going on to kill another because he still has a tag in hand, until he gets the one he really wants. This type of thinking could decimate populations. I lost on whitetail doe last year early season and almost gave up hunting the rest of the season because I felt so bad about not doing right by the animal and recovering it for it's intended purpose and I still had 4 tags in my pocket. I went home, practiced, checked my equipment and came to the conclusion that it was my fault, which was a bitter pill to swallow. A couple weeks later I came to grips with the fact that mistakes happen but this is entirely different than continuing to hunt just because you didn't bag an animal.

Bar · Sep 22, 2014

Shrek said:
Not trying to convince anyone. If it's in the management plan then I'm fine with whatever situational moral relativity you wish to endulge in. We are talking about a situation where you have already decided to make your substance a sport for your enjoyment and chosen a less sure weapon because it makes it harder and therefore more challenging. The moral quandary is the luxury of our ridiculously wealthy society.

The problem when you don't find the animal is you don't know if it died, or suffered a long time with being wounded. That certainly isn't in any management plan to control herds. The elk was obviously wounded by finding a bloody arrow. If I was him I would do as he did. I had my shot, and screwed up. My hunt would be over, and it would haunt me for a long time.

Of course others wouldn't be bothered, and continue to hunt. We're all different.

Bar · Sep 22, 2014

live2hunt said:
Not trolling, just making a point. Shrek was expressing his views and reasoning behind them and you decided to police this thread and tell him what not to do. Who made you the Rokslide police? If you don't agree with Shrek that's fine, I don't, but to dictate what he can post and how he decides to convey his message (as long as he is sticking to the subject and following Rokslide terms of use) is a bit bully like.

Forums are for expressing our opinions. I didn't like what Shek was saying, and you didn't like what I said. Neither of us are forum police. We're just voicing our opinions. Does that work for you?

Shrek · Sep 22, 2014

To answer a few points. I'm all for conservation management which is why you have a tag and seasons. There are wanton waste laws and if you read what I actually say I said you have made your best effort to take a good shot and recover the animal. If you and your family were really suffering hunger and had the means to take game but not to buy food from the store I have no problem with extra legal hunting. I have been there when I was young living in Appalachia during the 79/80's recession. The fish and game I brought home made a real difference in my family. We ate a lot of dent and mystery cans from the local food pantry , government cheese in the brown wax paper wrappers , ect. I'm not there these days but it gave me a better understanding of the luxury that most of us lavish in. If you are archery hunting and debating whether to quit hunting your tag because you wounded and lost an animal then you are historically rich in comparison to the rest of human history. So , the law says it's up to you to decide and that's good enough for me.

Draw blood/punch your tag?

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