Bear protection

Will_m · Jul 24, 2015

Not trying to start an argument regarding weapon choice, but am curious as to what, if anything, everyone carries for bear protection in grizz country. I was thinking along the lines of a riot type 12 gauge loaded with slugs and slung in a way where it would be easily accessible but not so prone as to be a burden. This also leads me to my next question, mostly pertaining to those carrying archery equipment -- at what point do you feel the need to have the weapon "at the ready," as opposed to readily accessible? It looks as though anytime you would be moving in thick country, slinging the bow and holding the firearm would be the best bet protection wise, but when moving in relatively open country the weapon could be slung in a position that allowed you to focus on your bow, but still be readily available with minimal movement time to access it. Thoughts?

I think ballistic and proficiency wise, the shotgun would be superior as bear protection but I could entertain a large caliber revolver, if for nothing more than a security blanket type feeling. Bear spray seems questionable as it can be largely influenced by weather, not to mention by the time the bear is that close the situation has deteriorated greatly.

Ray · Jul 24, 2015

Based on my experience here in AK I recommend people use a defensive weapon system that they can deploy in 5 seconds or less. If you are lucky the bear will give you 10 seconds. What that system is is not as important. It's about the time the bear gives you.

If you chose a handgun be sure you are proficient with it. Many guys aren't. Some like high-cap semi autos since they can spray and pray, which can work out. I like large front beads with a wide shallow V rear sight. I am not 10x target shooting with my redhawk.

In order to effectively use a shotgun in CQB you need a rear sight, preferably a ghost ring. Just having a front bead causes a sight acquisition delay.

I prefer a BFR over a shotgun when I'm busy with my hands. Shotguns and rifles are too hard to carry in the brush when you need your hands for a task, and they get put down and left to far out of reach.

Kevin Dill · Jul 25, 2015

Went through this exact thought process many years ago. It always comes down to a matter of personal preference, ideology, abilities, and sometimes rationalization. Of course the shotgun is a stout weapon, and so is a good rifle. If they are slung and a bear comes quickly (they often do) it's debatable whether you'll get it off your shoulder or back in time. Then there's the weight. I'm not going to bring what I won't carry, and the weight of a long gun is just a deal breaker for me when I'm bowhunting...not to mention the extra bulk when navigating cover. So I settled on a larger revolver for its simplicity, dependability, and ease of carry. I always carry it when I'm in grizzly country, and I practice enough to feel good about my odds. In reality, a lot of bears are deterred by the concussive blast and not the impact of a bullet. A .45 caliber anything is a cannon when the muzzle-blast comes your way.

I do own and LOVE a Marlin .45-70 which was customized by Wild West Guns in Anchorage. It shoots like a dream and would be a major bear stopper. I only ever use it as a camp gun or when approaching a carcass that might have a bear visiting it. Interestingly, I've never fired a round at a bear in many years of AK hunting, but I dang near shot a cow moose in the face last September when she threatened me at about 10'. I managed to avoid pulling the trigger and bluffed my way out of that one, but she was about 4 ounces of index finger pull from a .45 hard-cast to the skull.

Then there's pepper spray which has a lot of popularity. I usually have it with me somewhere, but it's not my preference. I still haven't figured out how to reload it or deter a bear that's still 30 yards out. Call me a sissy but I just don't favor a defense which only works when my opponent is shaking hands with me or kicking my butt.

Salix · Jul 25, 2015

I work in the forests of Northern BC, often on my own for the day. I'll I've ever carried is pepper spray. If hunting in the same areas it's just the gun I'm using for the hunt. When heading high into the hills will often carry the spray as well.
I could carry a hand gun, but they are heavily regulated here. I've worked with guys that do have them though. The other option is a shot gun and my issues with a shot gun is the weight and the time it takes to get it up and shoot if something is coming at you. In my 20 years working in the bush I've seen a lot of bears, both griz and black and never have had any issues with them.

BCBowtech · Jul 26, 2015

Bear spray and occasionally the 45-70

Tony Trietch · Jul 26, 2015

I'm out shooting today. This is not the most fun to plink with but its light and throws out a giant wad of lead.

Flyrod · Jul 26, 2015

In canada … pistols are a no go for the average person.
My answer ….. 870 12g with a 12.5" barrel. Slung across my back with a speedy quick extend 2 point Vickers style sling. I practice fairy regularly and can be on target in a few seconds with it.

Kevin Dill · Jul 27, 2015

Great weapon Flyrod! The amazing thing here in the US is that a short-barreled bazooka (like yours) will be harder to acquire and require more paperwork (and time) than simply immigrating. A good strong handgun is no problem to purchase, but that shottie would take a LOT of effort...at least it will where I live. That's one reason why I didn't buy one...love them all the same.

This is my battle weapon when things get dirty and dangerous:

View attachment 27307

Flyrod · Jul 27, 2015

Kevin Dill said:
Great weapon Flyrod! The amazing thing here in the US is that a short-barreled bazooka (like yours) will be harder to acquire and require more paperwork (and time) than simply immigrating. A good strong handgun is no problem to purchase, but that shottie would take a LOT of effort...at least it will where I live. That's one reason why I didn't buy one...love them all the same.

This is my battle weapon when things get dirty and dangerous:

View attachment 27307

Shhhhhhhh…. we can't call them weapons up here. If our powers that be hear that, they will restrict them or even prohibit them. It's my shotgun that i use for skeet shooting!….
yeah… thats it…. skeet shooting….lol

Thanks for the compliment. I put lots of thought into that build. Crazy how governments regulate…

love your 45/70. Is that a 14" barrel?

power54 · Jul 27, 2015

The stats side with bear spraygiven all the variables.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/bear_cougar/bear/files/JWM_BearSprayAlaska.pdf

But, I hunt in NW Wyoming and always carry a firearm of some kind in addition to spray. My personal choice during archery is a Ruger Alaskan .44 with 340 grain Buffalo Bore rounds. When I was in Alaska, I carried a 12 gauge or a .375 H&H. The bears up there are a bit too big for the .44 IMO.

WyoHnt300 · Jul 27, 2015

I hunt griz country every year and have for the last 20. I will go into camp with a sidearm at the ready, but only take the bear spray into the field when I'm hunting. We see bears every year but have yet to use either a firearm or the spray.

Hungarydog · Jul 27, 2015

When I was stationed in Alaska I carried a .44 till an old timer asked me if I had the front sight filed down, when I asked why I was told " that way when the bear takes it away from you and shoves it up your ass it doesn't hurt so bad", after that I carried the 12 gauge

Jjamesdean · Jul 27, 2015

Hungarydog said:
When I was stationed in Alaska I carried a .44 till an old timer asked me if I had the front sight filed down, when I asked why I was told " that way when the bear takes it away from you and shoves it up your ass it doesn't hurt so bad", after that I carried the 12 gauge

Hahahahah

Joee · Jul 27, 2015

I carry a 10mm Glock. I carry a Glock as a duty weapon and am very proficient with it so I decided to go with a Glock as a bear defense weapon. I carried a G29 in Alaska this year and have since purchased a G20.

60x · Jul 27, 2015

The absolute best defense against bears is smart thinking and a level head. Being smart in bear country will save you butt more then any weapon. However the best weapon is one you are going to keep with you at all times. If it's big and bulky you are likly not going to want to hold it all the time and laying on a tree 10 feet away when you need it is not so good

AZ Vince · Jul 28, 2015

60x said:
The absolute best defense against bears is smart thinking and a level head. Being smart in bear country will save you butt more then any weapon. However the best weapon is one you are going to keep with you at all times. If it's big and bulky you are likly not going to want to hold it all the time and laying on a tree 10 feet away when you need it is not so good

Best advice yet.

Will_m · Jul 28, 2015

I see a lot of merits to the argument of having something that you would be more inclined to have on you at all times. The 12 gauge or 45-70, however, is hard not to carry knowing its stopping power and ability for quick and accurate follow up shots. Having said that, it still does not seem feasible to carry both a bow and a long gun at all times, unless the bear country was so bad that a charge was more of a when than an if. Looking over some big bore revolvers, the 454 casull seems to be a happy medium between the more shootable .44 mag and the low aircraft destroy S&W 500. I've also read numerous reports that say a lot of bear encounters are one shot opportunities, so I would assume a sidearm would be faster on the draw than a shotgun slung in any form.

Any 454 fans out there?

As far as the best advice being "be bear smart," well, that's always a great thing to say and practice, but if SHTF I would rather have something more persuasive than explaining to Mr. Bear I was being bear smart. No offense of course, as that advice is great, but if you're going into bear country and planning on being anything but bear smart, no amount of firepower will compensate for your complacency.

Kevin Dill · Jul 29, 2015

I agree in principle with the talk of being bear-smart. It might be better said "Don't be bear-dumb." Avoid the obvious mistakes and take adequate, reasonable precautions. No amount of bear-smart will keep you out of trouble when it's determined to show up. Case in point is the couple killed in a 2005 predatory bear attack on the Hulahula River in the ANWR. They were experienced outdoors people. Their campsite was clean and well set up. They did everything right. I know for sure they had a .45-70 in camp, and recall they also had pepper spray. The bear apparently attacked them in their tent and killed both of them. They never had a chance to defend themselves.

If you really take the time to research and understand ballistics (and big animals) you'll see that it generally takes a CNS hit to drop a bear running at you instantly. Skull/brain or spine...beyond that the bear is wounded and still likely to cause harm. Sure, a .45-70 slug traveling 4' through the mid-body will kill...but that might not be for many valuable seconds or minutes. Hit the brain or spine and they drop. The problem is hitting those moving target zones. A .44 Mag loaded with 250+ grain hard-cast projectiles exiting the muzzle at something over 1,000 fps will have no problem breaking a bear's skull or spine. Neither will a .454 or a .500, though they bring more energy. If that energy isn't directed into the CNS targets of a bear at very close range, it is still unlikely to stop the charge and prevent injury. What's needed (in a firearm and projectile) is accuracy combined with adequacy. A projectile with more than enough energy into the right place will solve the equation. Lots more energy might sound or feel good in theory, but the practical benefits are hard to prove when it comes to big-bore handguns and close-range hits.

Will_m · Jul 29, 2015

Couldn't agree more with the information regarding targeting the CNS, especially in a charging bear. Even the most well placed shot on a large animal will not result in instantaneous death unless the CNS is destroyed, and in something the size of a bear, it would only need one second to do irreparable damage to you. Taking this into consideration, the .44 mag would be favorable as it is more shootable than the .454.

However, I have also hear that a charging bear, if it hit with sufficient force may check up on its charge just long enough to get off a second more accurate shot. Not sure how true that is, and it would be an unfortunate event to find out the hard way.

307 · Jul 29, 2015

If you can find one, Ruger .480 in an Alaskan is a great revolver. It lies somewhere between .44 and .454 recoil wise but throws a big (325-410 grain) bullet. Mine carries 6 rounds. I'd either have it or a light .44.

Bear protection

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