Bear protection

307 said:

If you can find one, Ruger .480 in an Alaskan is a great revolver. It lies somewhere between .44 and .454 recoil wise but throws a big (325-410 grain) bullet. Mine carries 6 rounds. I'd either have it or a light .44.

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Haven't looked into the .480 but it definitely sounds like a good compromise between the two calibers. Are hard cast bullets readily available for that chambering? I would be afraid to shoot anything less than hard casts, with solids being the preference but I understand the wonderful ATF outlawed any solids less than .50 caliber size.

On a side note, does anyone have any actual experience with shooting a bear in a defensive setting?

Buffalo Bore makes a 410 grain hardcast bullet for the .480.

I'm a fan of the G20 in 10mm for a few reasons. 1. It'll hold 16 rounds, granted they aren't as hard hitting as a 44, 460, or 500 but I shoot it well. Which brings me to #2. You can get a .40 cal barrel and practice with it quite cheaply whereas a day at the range shooting 500 or 44 will cost you a pretty penny in comparison. #3. The holster. I'd be willing to wager that I can draw a G20 from a blackhawk paddle holster faster than most can draw a hammered action especially while wearing snaggy rain gear and a pack. #4. It's a glock which means that it's reliable easy to find parts, accessories, holsters, and info for. #5. Carrying a couple full mags in the boat or truck is pretty easy. Yeah I know speed loaders work great but they roll around all wonky and don't fit in pockets very well. If it's not comfortable and convenient then it's more likely that you wont carry it. I have co-workers that have giant hog-leg revolvers but hardly ever carry them because they either don't fit on their pack waist belt or interfere with the chest strap on their pack or waders. A lot of good all that knock down power does sitting in the truck or boat. Yeah there are some snubby revolvers that can dislocate your thumb but the accuracy is terrible outside of 30 yards and if I was ever to damage my rifle or bow during a fall or other accident in the bush I'd want something I could still hunt with over 40 yards until the Calvary showed up. The blackhawk paddle holster http://www.blackhawk.com/Products/H...jection-Molded/SERPA®-Sportster®-Holster.aspx really does work great with a pack etc... The ability to transfer it to so many belts or pants without having to either wear a separate belt or try and slip a pack belt through the stupid belt eye on the back of a leather holster really makes it easier to carry consistently. In the end there is no perfect do all silver bullet. The best tool in the arsenal is always the one between your ears anyway.

If be interested go hear what kind of drills or practice scenarios you guys use. I plan on carrying my Ruger .44 in Montana this year, but not sure how to effectively practice with it other than rapid fire at paper. Your thoughts?

Something like this. http://youtu.be/t-Zd7LLds2w

TheJuice said:

If be interested go hear what kind of drills or practice scenarios you guys use. I plan on carrying my Ruger .44 in Montana this year, but not sure how to effectively practice with it other than rapid fire at paper. Your thoughts?
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First thing is to buy some of these. I don't know which model of ruger you have, so check with the fit. You currently have factory target sights on a defensive weapon. XS sights are the bomb for shooting well in rapidly changing situations.
https://www.xssights.com/Products.aspx?CAT=8351

Rapid fire shooting is not something needed by anyone for any reason. In a class many years ago, a fellow student brought his .44 S&W and spent the good part of a box of ammo making a few holes in the target. He complained to one of the instructors that his pistol was not working well. He was shooting all double action shot strings of six. The instructor came over - former US Army shooting team member - and put all six rounds into a small clover leaf pattern in one corner of the target in about 10 seconds. "Your pistol works extremely well, must be the loose nut behind it." Then he spent the better part of a half hour teaching the guy how to shoot. Ended up being able to get six rounds within an 8 inch spot by the end but only using single action.

The guy stated that he was going to leave the pistol in geology camp and only take the shotgun in the field. Good plan, but all they had were shotguns with pistol grips. Which turned out to be one of the funniest days on the range for me. The instructor made all the geologist shoot 3" mag slug loads with the pistol grips. Two of them dropped the weapon when it went off. Ten guys, two shots each, and only one hit on paper at 10 feet using the pistol grip 870. Ten men holding their wrist and trying not to cry. Then the instructor had me step up with my 870 deer slayer with rifle sites. Gun on the table with it ready to shuck the first round and the safety off. Timer goes off, I pickup the weapon, shuck it as it comes to my shoulder, acquire sights, boom, shuck, boom. 1.5 seconds and there are two holes about 2 inches apart in the center of the target. And my wrist wasn't throbbing. The fastest the pistol grip guys could do was 8 seconds for both shots, but not hit anything.

Get a bunch or make a bunch of low power ammo. For a .44 cheap wadcutter stuff or even cowboy action .44 specials are fine for range time.

To effectively practice you need to just shoot one round at a time. Hold the weapon safely pointed down range at low ready postion, cock it, raise it to eye level, acquire the sites, shoot. Do this until its a smooth muscle memory style of action that results in you hitting a 3 inch aiming zone 10 to 20 feet away with all six rounds. Once you get there then move to double action and add a second shot behind the first, still keeping the three sets of two in as small an area as you can. It may require a trigger job to get the double action to function smoother.

That short sight radius is going to be difficult to deal with for double action shots. Lots of muzzle flip maybe. Might want to look into getting it ported.

And then for fun - only if your range allows it - build a little wheeled cart with a target stand on it and have someone well behind you with a car or ATV and a long rope pull the target towards you at no more than 15 MPH. Pin a small 3-4" balloon on the target for real fun. It will get your heart rate up and show you some wholes in your skills. Make sure you have 50 feet between you and the target when it starts moving and only two rounds in the pistol.

The HSM "bearload" 305grain gas check stuff is pretty nice shooting and tears things up pretty well. Very accurate in my redhawk.

Will_m said:

Not trying to start an argument regarding weapon choice, but am curious as to what, if anything, everyone carries for bear protection in grizz country. I was thinking along the lines of a riot type 12 gauge loaded with slugs and slung in a way where it would be easily accessible but not so prone as to be a burden. This also leads me to my next question, mostly pertaining to those carrying archery equipment -- at what point do you feel the need to have the weapon "at the ready," as opposed to readily accessible? It looks as though anytime you would be moving in thick country, slinging the bow and holding the firearm would be the best bet protection wise, but when moving in relatively open country the weapon could be slung in a position that allowed you to focus on your bow, but still be readily available with minimal movement time to access it. Thoughts?

I think ballistic and proficiency wise, the shotgun would be superior as bear protection but I could entertain a large caliber revolver, if for nothing more than a security blanket type feeling. Bear spray seems questionable as it can be largely influenced by weather, not to mention by the time the bear is that close the situation has deteriorated greatly.

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If I even suspect a bear is near, my first grab is the canister of bear spray. If I am bowhunting there is no way I'm packing a shotgun too, I keep a S&W 329PD on my belt. When hunting brown bears with a bow I will have at least one shotgunner backing me up...maybe two.

TheJuice said:

If be interested go hear what kind of drills or practice scenarios you guys use. I plan on carrying my Ruger .44 in Montana this year, but not sure how to effectively practice with it other than rapid fire at paper. Your thoughts?
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Set up a grizzly bear bait, then hunt over it on the ground with recurves. haha.... I learned real quick just how fast a grizzly bear is, wow... Luckily we did have a rifle along, glad I didn't have to use it.

Where's Bruce? said:

If I even suspect a bear is near, my first grab is the canister of bear spray. If I am bowhunting there is no way I'm packing a shotgun too, I keep a S&W 329PD on my belt. When hunting brown bears with a bow I will have at least one shotgunner backing me up...maybe two.

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When are you going brown bear hunting?

Ray said:

To effectively practice you need to just shoot one round at a time. Hold the weapon safely pointed down range at low ready postion, cock it, raise it to eye level, acquire the sites, shoot. Do this until its a smooth muscle memory style of action that results in you hitting a 3 inch aiming zone 10 to 20 feet away with all six rounds. Once you get there then move to double action and add a second shot behind the first, still keeping the three sets of two in as small an area as you can. It may require a trigger job to get the double action to function smoother.

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Not bad advise. I've taken a number of self defense and bear defense classes now. The good instructors have all basically start out with dry fire, then progress to single aims shots, then double taps, then to presentation from the holster, then speed, then moving targets... Basically, master the basics and work on muscle memory before moving to the next step. If you just jump straight to rapid fire without having the fundamentals developed you will just be turning gunpowder to noise and very little paper will be harmed. A good self defense or combat handgun class is 100% worth the money and time if you really want to make that .44 paperweight into a useful tool.

The class I took this spring they had us shooting 4 moving targets mixed with with a randomly moving "no-shoot" target, all while clearing malfunctions and changing mags WHILE the shooter constantly also moved. Talk about multi tasking! But believe it or not there were surprisingly few misses or fumbles. BUT that was only because we had been been building the skill level slowly over a day and a half at that point.

I will disagree with Ray on one minor point. If I expect to shoot a gun in DA in a high stress situation, I don't bother wasting time learning to shoot it single action. I don't want to revert back to reaching for the hammer in a moment of truth.

Yk

Yellowknife said:

I will disagree with Ray on one minor point. If I expect to shoot a gun in DA in a high stress situation, I don't bother wasting time learning to shoot it single action. I don't want to revert back to reaching for the hammer in a moment of truth.

Yk

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My single action recommendation is geared towards learning the basics of how to shoot a pistol. One step at at time. Lowest common denominator. etc.
I have found that in use (training or real life) I never reach for the hammer. Who's got time for that?

I carried a SA Ruger .44 for about 10 years... When I switched to a SRH, it took some re-learning! Your experience may differ.

Either way, the fundamental method is the same. Front sight and a smooth trigger squeeze.... Rather than starting out with SA, I found for me the key to learning DA was dry fire practice. Work on a single smooth pull and follow through without disturbing the front sight, and when you switch to live fire the holes will be in the center of the target. Worked for me, but then again I'm just a student and not a handgun expert at all.

Yk

Nick Muche said:

When are you going brown bear hunting?

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Saving the money now...woulda been next year but 2014 was rough, wife had 4 surgeries and my youngest daughter had 2 so it set me back.

Will_m said:

Any 454 fans out there?

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I'm a fan of the Casull. I'd love to get my hands on a .475 Linebaugh too.

http://www.rokslide.com/forums/showthread.php?p=370193