Kuiu Icon Packs

Shrek · Jul 28, 2015

I personally think toray has zero interest in owning something like Kuiu, they are a massive textile corporation that serves some of the BEST euro mountain wear. Why would they want to touch small potatoes like Kuiu.[/QUOTE]
Toray desperately wants a toehold in the American market. Gore has very effectively locked Toray out so far but Kuiu is helping crack the door open. Toray is helping Kuiu as best they can and there seems to be some kind of exclusive for Kuiu. As Kuiu opens the market Toray may buy Kuiu out to break free of the exclusive contract and also be able to pour money into expanding the toehold Kuiu has made and kicking the door in on the whole outdoor apparel market they covet. Thats the reason Toray would buy out Kuiu.

Shrek · Jul 28, 2015

Toray basically "owns " Kuiu already in that Kuiu doesn't exist without Toray. The reason the Kuiu frame is all carbon fiber is thats what Toray wants it to be made from. Toray dominates the carbon fiber market and is pushing their carbon into new markets. The carbon fiber that Boeing is building their new planes from is all Toray and over 50% of all the carbon fiber used in the world today is produced by Toray. No matter how fragile the all carbon fiber Kuiu frames are they will always be all carbon fiber as long as Toray calls the shots at Kuiu.

IdahoElk · Jul 28, 2015

dotman said:
Man Kuiu is the only company that could market dog shit and it would sell, this is old news and well known and nope it hasn't effected Kuiu, nor will it. Too many loyal customers with their clothing line and too many people still consider them a new young company with growing pains and they get a pass.

It amazes me, if any other company handled their business the same way it would of folded awhile ago, good products or not.

Do you honestly believe that Kuiu is the only company that has problems with products they sell? Why do companies offer improved or new models of the same product every year?
It sucks when things break,hopefully they stand behind their product and make it right,most good companies do.

COlineman78 · Jul 28, 2015

Shrek said:
No matter how fragile the all carbon fiber Kuiu frames are they will always be all carbon fiber as long as Toray calls the shots at Kuiu.

Disagree, the weaknesses are poor design to make it look sleek and has nothing to do with Toray. Toray may make the sheets of CF fabric, but I doubt they had much to do with the actual frame design. You can have the best fiber behind your composite but a poor design will make it crap. The sad part is that this problem could be fixed with less than $0.05 worth of foam embedded in a few key areas (stays and lumbar areas).

xcutter said:
How do you determine what generation frame is on a pack?

As far as I am aware, other than the 3 basic versions: Icon, Ultra and Pro; there is no way to tell them apart nor is there enough data to truly know which runs were good or bad. While I agree it is a flawed design, I still think that it would work fine for certain people who will not use it a whole lot nor stress it.

tipsntails7 · Jul 28, 2015

Shrek said:
I personally think toray has zero interest in owning something like Kuiu, they are a massive textile corporation that serves some of the BEST euro mountain wear. Why would they want to touch small potatoes like Kuiu.

Toray desperately wants a toehold in the American market. Gore has very effectively locked Toray out so far but Kuiu is helping crack the door open. Toray is helping Kuiu as best they can and there seems to be some kind of exclusive for Kuiu. As Kuiu opens the market Toray may buy Kuiu out to break free of the exclusive contract and also be able to pour money into expanding the toehold Kuiu has made and kicking the door in on the whole outdoor apparel market they covet. Thats the reason Toray would buy out Kuiu.[/QUOTE]

I don't think toray gives 2 shits about the tiny hold GORE thinks it has in the U.S. Toray is a multi billion dollar company that already has multiple plants in the U.S. In numerous facets of the industrial sectors.

Americans as a whole won't pay 6-800 dollars for a hard shell. It's not a market that will support that.

Gore is finally losing its death grip on the outdoor industry in America because they no longer are the only game in town. Event is finally taking hold, as is neoshell. Columbia, north face, mountain hardwear have all finally told gore to kick rocks. I envision more and more companies going in that direction.

tipsntails7 · Jul 28, 2015

Obi-wanshinobi said:
Know any place I could get some of the euro stuff using Toray Fabrics??? Kinda tired of buying everything in Major Brown lol.

Ehhh, short of knowing a guy in Europe I'm not sure. Maybe check backpacking lite for Euro websites. Your gonna get bent over with exchange rate and shipping though. When I visited a outdoor shop there, arcteryx pro shell was the only gore I saw. Mostly Event and Toray. I couldn't tell you the names. Some of them were crazy weird spelling and super bright colors. I would say look for some event products stateside.

tipsntails7 · Jul 28, 2015

xcutter said:
How do you determine what generation frame is on a pack?

The Kuiu logos either between the shoulder pads or on the back covered by the bag should be different from each generation.

xcutter · Jul 29, 2015

Do the 2011's have the logo on the back of the frame covered by the pack?

Do the 2012's have the logo on the front in between the shoulder straps?

dotman · Jul 29, 2015

tipsntails7 said:
Toray desperately wants a toehold in the American market. Gore has very effectively locked Toray out so far but Kuiu is helping crack the door open. Toray is helping Kuiu as best they can and there seems to be some kind of exclusive for Kuiu. As Kuiu opens the market Toray may buy Kuiu out to break free of the exclusive contract and also be able to pour money into expanding the toehold Kuiu has made and kicking the door in on the whole outdoor apparel market they covet. Thats the reason Toray would buy out Kuiu.

I don't think toray gives 2 shits about the tiny hold GORE thinks it has in the U.S. Toray is a multi billion dollar company that already has multiple plants in the U.S. In numerous facets of the industrial sectors.

Americans as a whole won't pay 6-800 dollars for a hard shell. It's not a market that will support that.

Gore is finally losing its death grip on the outdoor industry in America because they no longer are the only game in town. Event is finally taking hold, as is neoshell. Columbia, north face, mountain hardwear have all finally told gore to kick rocks. I envision more and more companies going in that direction.[/QUOTE]

Why would the buy Kuiu, because it would be a dirt cheap investment into the U.S. market. They would have to hardly invest any additional funds into the company other then a few sales people. They already own the materials and have all the patterns and good being developed in their factory.

I'm not saying they will follow gore exactly but I could see prices staying the same and the Kuiu name expanding. It would be a cheap investment for them and they already pretty much run the production side of the business.

tipsntails7 · Jul 29, 2015

xcutter said:
Do the 2011's have the logo on the back of the frame covered by the pack?

Do the 2012's have the logo on the front in between the shoulder straps?

Call Kuiu and ask. I cannot remember what the 2012 looks like. I think the only difference from the 2012 to the 13 was a box on the back of the frame that had a Kuiu logo and 12 on it and it doesn't have any Rams on the front of the frame sheet. Pretty sure but Don't quote me on that.

Here is the 2011, see the ram above the lumbar region.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1438182636.532568.jpg

2013 has the ram between the shoulder straps

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1438182659.758983.jpg

xcutter · Jul 29, 2015

Okay thanks for the help. I have been looking at a lot of pics. It's hard to determine the difference from a 2013 and a 2012 from the pics I've been looking at.

Was the 2013 frame an improvement over the 2012? I've read review after review seems like I can't find anything that says that one is better than the other. Everyone keeps saying the 2012 was an improvement over the 2011. And the 2012 belt and suspension was an improvement over the 2011 also.

Any opinions?

dotman · Jul 29, 2015

I would say no, the improvement was probably the 2014 but they still break as well as posted above.

Like COlineman said for the price they are a good pack but a lifetime pack they are not. You may get 1 season or 5 out of it but at some point the frame will fatigue and break.

str_8tup · Jul 30, 2015

Well guys, they are covering the pack. I'm sending it in tomorrow. No idea yet on what they are doing. Hoping for a Icon Pro! Will let ya all know what I receive from em.....

xcutter · Jul 30, 2015

Well hopefully the take good care of you.

Were you the original owner of the pack? Will they do anything if your frame breaks and you are not the original owner?

Anyone have an experience with this situation?

dotman · Jul 30, 2015

Good deal!

str_8tup · Aug 3, 2015

I was the original owner of the pack. They do NOT have a lifetime warranty on things purchased used.

str_8tup · Aug 3, 2015

So Dotman, was that your Ultra frame that broke on ya and If so did they warranty that as well? I'm curious because IF they send me a new Icon Pro I don't want to have to worry about the new frame breaking as well and wonder if they'll warranty it or not some years down the road!!!!

str_8tup · Aug 17, 2015

Just a heads up for you guys. They took care of the pack and sent me another p.o.s 2013 Icon Frame. This pack is going down the road! Won't make that mistake again!

Obi-wanshinobi · Aug 17, 2015

I know someone who would take that frame off you if you decide to sell it. He wants it as a backup lol.

sojourner · Aug 18, 2015

str_8tup said:
Just a heads up for you guys. They took care of the pack and sent me another p.o.s 2013 Icon Frame. This pack is going down the road! Won't make that mistake again!

I'm glad they took care of you- I figured they would as I've received really great customer service from them recently. If they gave you a brand new replacement frame you can't ask for more than that. Apparently they still had a '13 frame. I would hope (and expect) that if they didn't have any ICON frames left they would give an ICON PRO frame as a replacement. I guess we'll here soon enough from the next guy who sends back an ICON frame.

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