The 300 project..... Ghetto 2.0

The 300 project..... Ghetto 2.0 UPDATE

Hello Gentlemen/ladies,

I recently just finished buttoning up a tinkering project rifle.

I purchased a used 110 in 300WM (less than one box through it ) off of an elderly gentleman, it is the old style action, square back. I went ahead and did the following modifications:

-Rifle Basix Sav 1 @ 2lbs
- Pillar and glass bedding of the action ( JB weld) used the 6mm br article as my guideline.
- floated tang
- Burris XTR bases
- Vortex tactical rings
- Vortex Viper 4-16 x 50 FFP

My intention with this rifle was to A) put something together that I could effectively take game out to distance with, and B) to have a fun entry level/beginners gunsmithing project. C) to see how cheap I could do it all for --ended up being about 1100 bucks as I bought the rifle and optic second hand but in excellent condition.

So I take it to the range today with a box of hornady superformance (180 gr sst @ 3100 fps) and it shoots... like dog crap!!

the best group I was able to get was about 3.5" with the norm being about 5"

I double checked the action screws and retorque to 20in lb - no difference.

I got home and noticed the bolt handle was really really loose, like jingling around loose. I disassembled the bolt and inspected, then re assembled it tight again so there is no more looseness.

besides the loose bolt everything else seemed fine,

anyone have any ideas where to start trying to figure this thing out?

alternatively.... Anyone want to buy a used 300?? shoots err, umm. great.....

Mike.




EDIT/ UPDATE 2016/08/19


Ok so I re-bedded the savage, had it apart a million times, there was nothing I did that would make the thing shoot. I have no idea what is wrong with the gun, its been a lot of time for nothing ( besides a learning experience ). A co worker of mine has a similar vintage savage 111 in 7RM and it groups minute of beach ball just like mine does- who knows, maybe they were assembled by the same disgruntled savage employee back in the day?

So last week one of my favorite hunting stores had a firearms blowout. I figured it would be a good opportunity to keep my dream alive of having a decent weight hunting rifle that would be sub-moa accurate for cheap - think ring 800-1100 yd gongs with repeatability and enough horsepower to push high BC .30 cal projectiles with decent velocity for elk/moose/bear.

check out the New Images

the new test pony is a Remington 700 chambered in 300 except this time I went for a RUM instead of a WM. I am somewhat sentimental to the genesis of the RUM cartridges. I have lived in BC my whole life and I have shot with Aubrey White, the original bad-ass 404 Jeffrey wildcatter who handcrafted the original Imperial magnum calibers and later contracted SAKO to chamber barreled actions in the imperial mags which evolved into the RUM. After their lack of success- Remington ran with it, re named it, and here we are. Anyway, like I said I just like the story and being a BC/Canadian development, I had always wanted one.

Specs:
Bone stock Remington SPS SS
Weaver 20MOA rail
Vortex Viper HSLR FFP 4-16x50
Trigger Tech drop in 1.5-4lb - on order (factory X-mark thus far)

Total weight all in 8.8lb ( with Sling )

I took the rifle out to break in today. All I could find was factory "power level III" Remington ammo loaded with 200gr Swift A-frames. I got the gun in the mail yesterday, mounted the rail and scope, torqued to spec and went to the range.

I use the "fire one+ wet patch/brush/dry patch" method x10 then start shooting as normal. I am so far VERY impressed with the 700, I have never owned one before and the accuracy has been top notch. I shot a 12 rd break-in group into about 1.2 MOA which was more-less just shooting in order to break in the barrel with no fundamentals or time taken for the shots.

Before running out of ammunition I focused on breathing, posture, and trigger control and was able to plug a .44" for my last group, however, I can say that .6-1 1/8 was the "norm" out of this ammunition and rifle on this day. Bear in mind, this is a 100% factory rifle, non-free floated barrel, shooting box ammo, I think some quality hand loads are going to take this rig to the next level.

I am waiting on a Trigger, Brass, and a neck sizing die, ill update the ghetto thread again once I get some hand loads pumped out and the trigger installed and tuned.

Hopefully I can keep the dream alive for all the penny pinchers out there!

Mike.

5" groups is really really bad. Something is really not right. Scope rings and bases are all tight correct? Double check that. Do you have another scope available that you know to be good that you could swap on and confirm it is not a scope issue?
The bedding job does not look very clean. But it does not look so bad as to give you 5" groups at 100y!
Have you let someone else you know to be a good shooter have a try?
Did you shoot the rifle off a good solid bench? Sand bags fore and aft? Bipod? Were you standing? Just kidding.
The trigger upgrade and bedding and a good scope should have given you much better results than what you found. Too bad you did not shoot the rifle first before all of the upgrades to see what it was capable of.

That's terrible ! It would hurt my feelings bad if my first project had turned out like that. I would suspect the scope / mount first. How good does the bore look ? Barrel crown ? The bedding doesn't look bad from the pictures.

I looked at the picture of the bedding again and I have suspicion that it could be a problem. It doesn't look clean and smooth in the places that count. Personally I'd grind it all out and do it again. Marine Tex gray is really good for bedding. I don't know what you used for release agent but Kiwi neutral shoe polish works great. Polish it smooth so there's just a film of wax on the action. Tape off the stock and use enough bedding that is squeezes out all around the action. I put the extra bedding at the bottom of the stock so it squeezes up and pushes any bubbles out.

Barrel looks extremely free floated. Doesn't look right

I am kindof stumped now.

I changed the scope/rings/ and ammunition.

I was able to get 4 rds into a 1"/moa group at the range. I shot 6 rds total but two ended up about 4"-5" high. Im not sure now if its a flynch or if something else is off with the gun. The windage is perfect with no deviation there.

I am also reading that guys are tightening action screws down as much as 65in/lb on these guns and mine are at 20. Ill get those down to 60"lb and go again from there I suppose.

Thanks for the input, I went through what you all had mentioned short of rebedding the gun. To be honest, I don't even know how to inspect a barrel/throat to see if its shot out or not. I was told the rifle had less than a box through it total but theres no way I can confirm that.

Mike

Is the rear screw unsupported ? It looks like the entire rear of the action is not bedded not just under the tang. If so then that would probably be your issue.

Mine did the same when I put a bipod on because it was flexing the forend and contacting the barrel. Did some more sanding and stiffened up the stock with some epoxy on the inside. I don't know if that could be a problem with a wood stock but it sure was with my Tupperware stock

Bed the tang

micus - have you fired the rifle since you reassembled the bolt? If the bolt knob was extremely loose that leads me to believe that the bolt assembly screw didn't have good thread engagement. I'm assuming this would lead to excessive tolerances in the bolt head and could have impact to headspacing? Just a guess At best the rifle would have excessive harmonics due to the loose bolt assembly. I would give it another go with snugged up bolt assembly and see how it shoots. It might be worth giving the barrel a good scrub with a copper removing solvent (although this probably isn't the issue if the round count is low as you say). Let us know how it goes.

Bedding job looks kinda rough. It does not look like you are getting solid / uniform contact. You may want to try again.
Why "float the rear tang"? Not sure why you would not want uniform contact there.
Why were you only torquing the action screws to 20 inch pounds? That is pretty light.
I torque mine to 65, but I have an HS Precision stock and I used Devcon to bed my action.

Hey !

ok so the tang seemed strange to me too. Apparently it is the way to go for the Savage action, its supposed to "relieve" stress on the rear of the action that can cause accuracy issues. I read quite a bit about it on Savage Shooters. If it weren't for that then I would agree 100% that it seems strange. Maybe that's what is causing my issues, I only torqued the action screws to 20inlb because they are cheesy Phillips head action screws and were starting to strip out at anything over 20. I am going to go pick up some 1/4 fine stainless hex head screws and torque them to 65 and see how that goes.

Mike

CaNINE said:

micus - have you fired the rifle since you reassembled the bolt? If the bolt knob was extremely loose that leads me to believe that the bolt assembly screw didn't have good thread engagement. I'm assuming this would lead to excessive tolerances in the bolt head and could have impact to headspacing? Just a guess At best the rifle would have excessive harmonics due to the loose bolt assembly. I would give it another go with snugged up bolt assembly and see how it shoots. It might be worth giving the barrel a good scrub with a copper removing solvent (although this probably isn't the issue if the round count is low as you say). Let us know how it goes.

Click to expand...

Hey there CaNINE,

yah I re assembled the bolt tight and shot the gun. I got one 3 rd 1 MOA group out of it but then proceed to shoot 2 wicked bad flyers- was not sure if it was me or the gun, I still find the 300 a bit uncomfortable to shoot so it could be an unconscious flinch. I am waiting on some new action screws and will go from there.

Mike.

micus said:

Hey !
I am going to go pick up some 1/4 fine stainless hex head screws and torque them to 65 and see how that goes.

Click to expand...

FYI generic stainless screws are usually fairly soft, off hand not sure if 65in-lb is too much or not, just mentioning it. Heavy torque isn't needed for the record, I run my Tikkas (which aren't metal pillar) at 30in-lb just fine. You have other issues going on.

I'm not familiar on best practice with barrel nut guns, but are you supposed to bed the first bit of the barrel on that style? I do on regular barrels but they're fairly uniform versus a nut. Did you bed the gun and pillars in one shot or first the pillars and then the gun?

The reason most float the tang on a Savage is because the rear receiver bolt doesn't go into the tang, like it does on most common boltguns.

The rear bolt on a Savage goes into the rear receiver ring.

So, floating the tang is a way of ensuring you don't inadvertently float the rear receiver ring.




FWIW, that bedding job looks kinda sketchy to me. I've done a few of my own on Rem 700s, and mine may not look quite as nice as a professional 'smith, but they look a helluva lot better that that.

One thing worth mentioning is, if the scope mount makes contact with the top of recoil lug you could see fliers. I had to grind the front edge of a scope mount once and it improved shot consistency by a noticeable amount. Also check to see if the mag box binds when you torque the actions screws down. Any binding in the action could be a problem. I would also clean the copper out of the barrel good with wipe out or similar product. If you have a rough chamber you could be fouling up after a couple of shots.

I only bed the recoil lug area and barrel nut area on my savage... you are correct in that you don't want to bed the tang on a Savage due to the rear action screw not being directly under the tang and it can add pressure... this is what I have read/been told and experienced as well...

As others have said, I would look at the bedding to begin with - for an average shooter, a recoil lug bed vs full bed shouldn't make a huge difference - my .02

Try a different scope too... and TRIPLE check your mounts (I had a mount once where I had the wrong screws in the wrong holes on a model 70 and I thought it was tight, but it was on the bolt and was loose... shot an entire year with it like that.)

A lot of Savages like to shoot dirty too... I would maybe do a deep clean, and then shoot off 8-10 rounds before I cared a whole heck of a lot about group size.

Ah, what the hell, I,m in a good mood!!..
I,'ll trade ya straight across for a vintage Martin Warthog!
Same bow that was used in the original Dukes of Hazard...

To quote Uncle Jesse.."Now who in the world would blow up an outhouse??!..."

Well...same model compound..not the one used to blow up an outhouse....