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Thread: DIY Tipi

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beendare View Post
    Tipi fabric; I would use the Silpoly over the Silnylon. The Silnylon has more stretch which equates to sagging.

    Then depending on how light you want it either the .93 Silpoly .93PU 4000, 1.1oz, 1.1PU 4000 all #1 quality from Ripstop by the roll. IMO, Considering the labor involved [a lot!] I would use the highest quality fabric as you only want to do this once.

    I would reinforce top cone with 210 dyneema or 500 cordura. The tieouts I would use 1.7oz dyneema ripstop reinforcements.

    That Sketchup program is the bomb for a project like this. I did my big tent on the free trial....I wish I would have designed a couple others while I was at it. Sketchup will tell you all of the dimensions for your pieces- big advantage.

    I was just looking at some of the .9 Silpoly on RSBTR the last few days. Do you think the thinner material would hold up well enough for a full tipi? I guess for some reason I associate thicker with stronger, but I know there's a point of diminishing returns and realistic "needs" for strength.

    Jeremy

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    Quote Originally Posted by gudspelr View Post
    I was just looking at some of the .9 Silpoly on RSBTR the last few days. Do you think the thinner material would hold up well enough for a full tipi? I guess for some reason I associate thicker with stronger, but I know there's a point of diminishing returns and realistic "needs" for strength.

    Jeremy
    My exact questions as well. The 1.1 silnylon seems on the less durable side to me. I've made a few sacks from the 1.6 oz hyperD PU4000 and really liked the durability of it. Can anyone with experience with the Kifaru tarps chime in on fabric thoughts?


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  3. #23
    Member hunterandprey's Avatar
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    Beendare - Thanks for the info. Very helpful for finalizing my list.

    WoodBow - A Luci Lantern just went on my list. The bulky one I have now is crap. Thanks for the recommendation!

    I think that I read both Kifaru and Seek Outside use 30D, which would be in the 1.3oz range. I'm considering the 1.1 and 1.6. Any advice on that decision is appreciated.

    Sketchup is absolutely the best. I use it all the time with my clients, but also for anything I'm building. It helps me comp things up to exact specs without having to actually comp with materials. It has saved me a ton of time.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Beendare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gudspelr View Post
    I was just looking at some of the .9 Silpoly on RSBTR the last few days. Do you think the thinner material would hold up well enough for a full tipi? I guess for some reason I associate thicker with stronger, but I know there's a point of diminishing returns and realistic "needs" for strength.

    Jeremy
    Jeremy,
    I haven't used that exact fabric. I am currently working with the heavier version of it for a wall tent[ modified version]
    I was having this discussion off line with Torrey....hunterprey
    I can tell you this. I've had issues with the Silnylon rip....and it just keeps going. Its good stuff...but some of the silpoly is much better. I really like the idea of this rip stop material for hunting applications. If we were just backpacking and could baby our gear its less of an issue...but on hunts we want a higher degree of durability- right? IMO we do.

    The Silpoly I have has a very fine Dyneema thread woven in. I haven't tested it much real world.....hopefully someone that has will chime in. Last thing we want is a branch to poke a hole....and it turns in to a 20" run [beentheredonethat!]

    I'm currently using the 1.1oz silpoly PU 400 and the 1.6oz Hyper D PU 4000 [for the roof as its a big tent for horse packing]
    “It takes no more time to see the good side of life than to see the bad.” ― Jimmy Buffett

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  5. #25
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    Beendare-

    I'm completely with you on having something with strength. Particularly when it comes to what's keeping me sheltered from the elements.... I think there's always the worry/balance between light but strong enough. I'm leaning strongly towards the Silpoly and not worrying about any cat cuts. Not sure I'll go the PU4000 route, maybe the step under that though. I really appreciate all the sharing and advice on here. With the time investment, along with the cost of materials, I want to do it "right".


    Jeremy

  6. #26
    Senior Member WoodBow's Avatar
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    I used 1.3 pu nylon. What are yall referring to as silpoly? Polyester coated with silicone? I am not familiar with that variety. Are you referring to pu nylon (nylon treated w polyurethane)?

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    Silpoly is manufactured from polyester fibers as opposed to nylon, then coated or impregnated with silicone.

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    Hunterandprey - For the top cone, my advice would be to #1, don't sew around the bottom of the cone, only do vertical stitching on the seams, and #2, do it by hand. My first attempt I sewed the bottom of the cone all the way around the tent, but because of the difference in stretch of the materials, it created a lot of bad tension points. I undid the seam and then on my next attempt I only sewed the cone along the vertical seams and this worked perfectly, no more bad tension points. I started off sewing the vertical seams on my machine but it was a bear to deal with all that material. After a lot of frustration i pulled out a hand needle and went to town. Although it took a while, I was much happier with how the cone was attaching to the apex of the tipi. I could control the stitching a lot better and in the end, the extra time was worth it.

    For material type, i highly recommend Silpoly. It is quite a bit easier to work with (compared to Silnylon), and it doesn't sag when wet. Some tests show that it's rip strength is less than similar weight silnylon so I went up one weight to the 1.6 Silpoly from RSBTR (1.77 actual weight). For my shelter the overall weight difference between 1.1 oz Silnylon (1.24 actual) and 1.6 oz Silpoly totaled about 9 ounces. This was a small price to pay for a much more manageable sewing experience, increased rip strength (over 1.1 Silnylon), and no sag. For a shelter as big as mine, i'm not going for the absolute lightest thing possible. I can shave 9 ounces out of my pack pretty easily elsewhere to make up the difference.

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  10. #29
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    Flydaho-

    Thanks for the great info. I wouldn't have thought of the stretch issue at the cone, but that makes some sense. When you say you stitched on the vertical seams, did you leave the bottom of the reinforcement material (cone) open and unstitched? Did you just use a circle of material for the peak but only stitch vertically, leaving the material between seams unattached? I hope that makes sense...

    Jeremy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flydaho View Post
    Hunterandprey - For the top cone, my advice would be to #1, don't sew around the bottom of the cone, only do vertical stitching on the seams, and #2, do it by hand. My first attempt I sewed the bottom of the cone all the way around the tent, but because of the difference in stretch of the materials, it created a lot of bad tension points. I undid the seam and then on my next attempt I only sewed the cone along the vertical seams and this worked perfectly, no more bad tension points. I started off sewing the vertical seams on my machine but it was a bear to deal with all that material. After a lot of frustration i pulled out a hand needle and went to town. Although it took a while, I was much happier with how the cone was attaching to the apex of the tipi. I could control the stitching a lot better and in the end, the extra time was worth it.

    For material type, i highly recommend Silpoly. It is quite a bit easier to work with (compared to Silnylon), and it doesn't sag when wet. Some tests show that it's rip strength is less than similar weight silnylon so I went up one weight to the 1.6 Silpoly from RSBTR (1.77 actual weight). For my shelter the overall weight difference between 1.1 oz Silnylon (1.24 actual) and 1.6 oz Silpoly totaled about 9 ounces. This was a small price to pay for a much more manageable sewing experience, increased rip strength (over 1.1 Silnylon), and no sag. For a shelter as big as mine, i'm not going for the absolute lightest thing possible. I can shave 9 ounces out of my pack pretty easily elsewhere to make up the difference.
    Do you have any experience with the 1.1 silpoly PU4000?


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    I don't have any experience with the 1.1 silpoly PU4000. I'd love to try it out for my next project though. One thing to remember with the PU4000 coated fabrics is that the coating is applied to one side only. So you have to be careful how you cut your panels out of the fabric to make sure the coated side faces out. This may require buying more material than if you went with the regular silpoly. But at $7 a yard, it shouldn't hurt too bad. If I am able to start my next shelter soon (using 1.1 Silpoly PU4000), i'll let you know how it goes, and how the material performs.

  13. #32
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    gudspeir - yes, that's exactly what I did. The bottom of the cone, in-between vertical seams, isn't stitched to the tent. My reasoning behind this is the seams take most of the tension since at one end is the tie out at the ground, and the other is the pole. If I can utilize the 4 layers of the flat-felled seam to transfer the tension, rather than the single layer Silpoly, I should be in good shape. I've been meaning to start a thread detailing my project; if I get the time i'll do it soon. I learned some good tips along the way that should make it easier for anyone doing a mid/tipi project. Hopefully I can save some people a few headaches, and help them get a better finished product.

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    Thanks for all the info, guys. Flydaho, this kind of detail is exactly what I need. It helps so much to learn from others' experiences.

    Feel free to throw photos onto this thread until you get the time to post your own. I'm sure everyone would enjoy checking them out!

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    Senior Member Beendare's Avatar
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    I'm using the 1.1oz silpoly for the walls of a tent project right now....

    This stuff
    1.1 oz Silpoly | Ripstop by the Roll

    And the heavier 1.77oz stuff for the roof which is grid stop nylon
    1.6 oz HyperD PU4000 | Ripstop by the Roll

    I would agree with Flydaho....the heavier matl is much easier to sew...by a long shot!

    The 1.1 silpoly is very strong and I wouldn't hesitate to use it for a lightweight shelter.

    What I would like to know is HAS ANYONE FIGURED OUT A JIG TO USE FOR THESE FLAT FELLED SEAMS? My machine has a foot that makes a single seam....essentially you feed it in and it folds and sews at the same time. Is there such a gadget for these larger flat felled seams?

    it sure would be nice if there were.....
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  17. #36
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    Are you talking about a felling foot? like this? Tutorial: How to sew a flat felled seam with a felling foot | Colette Blog

    The only way to sew a true flat felled seam in one go is with a double-needle machine. With Silpoly, you can use Sailrite basting tape to achieve a true flat-felled seam as long as you dont mind a bit of extra work, and leaving the basting tape in the seam. It takes about twice as long to get the seams done because you have to be so careful, but in the end I think it's worth it. Here is a picture of my true flat felled seams on my modified mid shelter with 1.6 oz Silpoly.seam small.jpg

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  19. #37
    Senior Member Beendare's Avatar
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    Flydaho....you da man!

    I have that foot for my machine but have no idea how to use it...thx for that tutorial. I will have to play with it but it sure looks like I won't be able to get the width....i'm thinking I want 1/2". How wide are those seams you pictured?

    No doubt the pros use a double needle machine....that would make this easy.

    edit; The foot for my machine makes a 1/4" seam...and the 1.1oz doesn't exactly work real good with it on my first go around. Hmmm
    Last edited by Beendare; 03-27-2017 at 09:51 PM.
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    The seam in my picture is a 1/2" seam, so the two stitches are about 3/8" apart. I tried the felling foot also, and it was tough to make it work well. I wasn't sure if it really helped much or not, especially with all the extra time messing around with it. I ended up working out a system that I liked and ran with it (i.e. lots of pins and clips).

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    Following. I had emailed Kyle from RBTR a while back asking about material for a DIY Megatarp (Sept 2015) and this was his response:



    They never ended up coming out with the 30D XL Silnylon. I still haven't made the plunge because I couldn't decide on a material. But now I want to make a Tipi instead anyways.

    Silpoly is very intriguing. I have heard that since it it low stretch, it's more likely to have seams tear. The stretchier silnylon acts like a big rubber band in high winds, which is easier on the seams and fabric in general. That's been the only reason I haven't bought any yet. I'm glad to see there are some who've used it successfully. That may sway my decision.

    I found this picture on RBTR as well:


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    Quote Originally Posted by bowhunter15 View Post

    Silpoly is very intriguing. I have heard that since it it low stretch, it's more likely to have seams tear. The stretchier silnylon acts like a big rubber band in high winds, which is easier on the seams and fabric in general. That's been the only reason I haven't bought any yet. I'm glad to see there are some who've used it successfully. That may sway my decision.
    I exchanged an e-mail or two this past week about the possibility of a XL silpoly option and was told there's going to be a pre-order for this coming on the website in the next few days.

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