Well I guess this is a sleep system ?, Spiking out with a CPAP?

[Ghost]

I have severe sleep apnea too and have been backpack hunting 3 years now. For those that may not know, it would be very serious at high altitude to do without an appropriate device. Very. There are two machines on the market that have been used successfully on mt Everest. The one I use is made by HDM. It is an auto-pap meanning pressure will change as body needs it vs continuous-pap. The pressure keeps you from being obstructed. The unit weighs 15 oz! I use a goal zero Sherpa 50 for power and one charge will last about two nights if temps above freezing. It weighs 17 oz. So I can two a 1-2 night NP. If a week out then I take two Sherpa 50's and a nomad 20 to charge during the day. Don't use the smaller panels, they struggle to fully charge the Sherpa in good light in 8 hours. A 20 can do it in about 4, real world wilderness and unattended you'll need all day. I'm also a type 1 diabetic. All of my medical supplies run about 7 lbs. a huge weight penalty - but I'm there hunting. Need to set up panel when you leave in morning so it is south facing and 10-15 degree angle at altitude. If it rains, have a backup... PM if want specifics.

John

Great information John! Looks like you have the cpap situation wired tight!! If you dont mind, I think quite a few people would like to see what your answers are to any questions people have.

Looks like youre using the Z1?

If its the Z1 does it run directly off DC? Or are you running an inverter off the battery?

With the nomad 20, are you getting any charging on cloudy days?

 

[Shraggs]

omg second time posting, timed me out on my phone! oh well.

Yes using the z1. No inverter is required, it has 3 power options:

1. typical plug into home a/c with cord and small power pack.

2. they sell a system called their clam shell - a housing that is small and clean, it houses the z1 and their proprietary battery. bought and returned it. two problems, first their batter is same weight as sherpa 50 but last 1 night vs 2. also, there is no on/off button, so if you don't remove the battery, it will drain powering the z1 display. their battery is $400, and the sherpa i believe is $200 and will power pretty much anything with all the ports on it. i paid $100 each buying refurbished units.

3. you can buy from them their male cigarette lighter adapter. it plugs directly into z1, then any female socket like a car. oh, i can sleep in my car no problem! i also bought the sherpa female adapter which plugs right into the sherpa series power packs. that is it 3 parts and very clean!

nomad 20 will charge on cloudy days, but i could not begin to estimate... if cloudy only, i assume 50%, if raining - it is not water proof. like i said in my first post, i have brought a nearly discharged sherpa 50 back from 10% in 4 hours in perfect light. the nomad 20 is a trifold design vs a book and this is important and worth the half pound over the nomad 13. when you leave before light and set it up south facing, the flaps can be angle down on either side to catch a little early and late light - but bulk of charging will be over head light wether its cloudy or sunny. so real world i plan on the 20 getting me back to full charge in one full day - but remember I'm going into the charge with 50% full sherpa.

if there is sustained weather, that is why i would bring 2 sherpa. no charging i can at least get 4 nights and 5 days hunting before i would most definitely leave the mountain to charge.

hope that helps!

john

 

[Shraggs]

oh the other product i believe is transcend it is the one actually been to mt everst. i liked it too, but slightly larger, heavier and not nearly as seamless on charging coupled with goal zero sherpa and nomad. i have not looked in 4 years, so i highly recommend talking directly to their customer service or technical teams for such a serious medical condition at altitude. products change and I'm sure there are improvements.

another thing, if you already have a cpap, then you have a perscription. your insurance company will not pay for this if it is an additional machine. so you need to love remote hunting! cause cash out is a lot for this stuff!

john

 

[Shraggs]

something i hadn't commented on, is the mask options. at home i like a mask that covers my nose and mouth cause I'm usually congested and breath thru my mouth. but when hunting, i take a comfortable nose/nostral mask only - made by fisher pakyl. also use a neoprene sling around my head to keep mouth shut, ha ha. both those pieces weigh couple of oz and much smaller to pack than a bulky plastic full face mask.

john

 

[NJDiverDan]

Shraggs,

Thanks for all the information. I also use a Z-1. Do you know your average pressure as I would assume this would contribute to how long the Sherpa 50 would last. I am looking to copy your setup.

 

[I Beam]

Shraggs,

Thanks for all the information. I also use a Z-1. Do you know your average pressure as I would assume this would contribute to how long the Sherpa 50 would last. I am looking to copy your setup.

Take a look at the power supply, it should tell you the max amp draw. From there you could guesstimate using math or just some programs available on the interwebs. Higher pressure obviously would draw more amps. I'm curious to do the set up mentioned. Sounds like he has it dialed in. Maybe we could even figure a way to rain proof the system.

 

[Shraggs]

NJ. My auto version is set from 7 - 15 per prescription. My average pressure at sea level is 13. The auto z1 is also automatically pressure sensing which is really a good thing. So my pressure stays the same but motor will work harder to achieve it. Most my camping is around 10800. I saw some difference from 9000 but I think tell effects battery life more than anything.

 

[Shraggs]

Temperature not tell

 

[Shraggs]

Rain proofing would be awesome, but then I doubt there is any useable sun light to charge. Ingame if you have some ideas, but best solution to date is a second Sherpa 50 Despite another pound.

 

[LaGriz]

Copied comment from Ghost, "I had it bad, it caused me to do a stint in the ER with blood pressure well over stroke level. I was somewhere at 8 percent body fat, extremely fit yet, still would wake up gasping for air and sweating bullets. I had surgery, removed my tonsils, uvula and that big flap of tissue at the back of my throat. That surgery was a life changer, no more need for a 2 hour nap when I got home for work, no more struggling to stay away driving, no more blood pressure issues. I really wish I had the surgery years ago. If you are told you stop breathing when sleeping, get yourself checked out, it can kill you!"

FYI-This condition killed All Pro DE Reggie White of Green Bay Packers fame.
I too have been diagnosed with sleep apnea. Could not tolerate the CPAP mask. In 2005 I opted for the "UPP surgery" described above. Very painful and a much longer recovery than expected. My sinuses were a mess, they got some rebuilding. Also they removed my uvula and that big flap of tissue at the back of my throat. The plan was to make room for the tongue to lay flat, and allow the airway to remain open. I'm much better now but still have issues with getting enough sleep. I can't imagine dealing with this in the Himalayas!

first became aware of the condition in 2001 while struggling with "Atrial-Fib". This is an arrhythmia condition of the heart. Chicken-or-the-egg? I was found to have an enlarged heart with a patch of atrophied heart mussel where one chamber of the heart just shakes and vibrates but doesn't beat as normal. My "ejection fraction" at this time was near 30%, or less than 1/2 the output at normal heart rhythm. Eventually, I had a "cardio version" procedure that required my being shocked with the paddles back into sinus rhythm. Was good for 9 years (with meds) only to re-occur in 2010 and again in 2015. October 2015 I had a "Ablation" procedure that has corrected the rhythm ever since.
I had this under control for a year only to undergo a double by-pass in October of 2016. It seems I had a 99% and a 90% blockage in my "widow maker" artery that could not be stinted. Had just completed a 2 week archery hunt in Northern New Mexico in late September. Never had a chest pain one! My labs indicated good numbers for cholesterol, triglycerides, everything kosher except a little high on the sugar. Bad genes they tell me. No Shit! LOL!

Going forward, I will be rifle hunting in Northern New Mexico this fall. Have no heart damage and my overall health is good. If you have any symptoms, or if you have family history, I recommend you get checked. I was being monitored pretty close when a Nuclear Stress test revealed the potential blockages. If I had not caught this when I did, I would most probably be dead right now.

Don't know what I have left in the tank. My performance this season will be a barometer of how I can proceed with any future quests for elk or Mule Deer. Hunting will happen at my pace, without anyone's timeline being impacted. The hope is to recover enough to make another traditional bow hunt with my recent hunting partners in 2018 and beyond. Taking and elk with my recurve is at the top of my bucket list. Spending a large part of the grandchildren's inheritance is also a goal. LOL!

LaGriz

 

[Shraggs]

A follow up to LAGriz comments. I mentioned earlier in this thread how serious severe sleep apnea is especially at high altitude. I feel it is threatening - but hopefully those that have this or know hunters who do that are sitting home can see it is possible to do this safely.

It may be possible for someone with mild diagnosis to get by a few nights up high without treatment. Moderate apnea may benefit from a high quality custom fit denal appliance. I have looked into this, if memory is right I believes a limited set of trail data shows at best a 25% improvement. Lots of homework here, lots of gimmicks! But severe I would stick to a machine.

Prolly obvious I work in health care (not a care provider), but no matter what you do, involve your appropriate provider in this process. Just take control of how, not if...

Fyi. Death from heart disease is number one killer in US, per death certificate. Sometimes underlying chronic conditions cause cardio failure. Sleep apnea untreated over time has this potential as LAGriz touched on. Also, uncontrolled diaabtes is most definitely a major reason to drop dead from a major cardio event.

I am a type 1 diabetic also...

LAGriz, very happy for getting your health on the right track, and therefore the lifestyle you choose. I hope you don't gloss over this "elevated" blood sugar. Would be happy to share my thoughts privately.

John

 

[homebru]

I have severe sleep apnea too and have been backpack hunting 3 years now. For those that may not know, it would be very serious at high altitude to do without an appropriate device. Very. There are two machines on the market that have been used successfully on mt Everest. The one I use is made by HDM. It is an auto-pap meanning pressure will change as body needs it vs continuous-pap. The pressure keeps you from being obstructed. The unit weighs 15 oz! I use a goal zero Sherpa 50 for power and one charge will last about two nights if temps above freezing. It weighs 17 oz. So I can two a 1-2 night NP. If a week out then I take two Sherpa 50's and a nomad 20 to charge during the day. Don't use the smaller panels, they struggle to fully charge the Sherpa in good light in 8 hours. A 20 can do it in about 4, real world wilderness and unattended you'll need all day. I'm also a type 1 diabetic. All of my medical supplies run about 7 lbs. a huge weight penalty - but I'm there hunting. Need to set up panel when you leave in morning so it is south facing and 10-15 degree angle at altitude. If it rains, have a backup... PM if want specifics.

John

I work in healthcare. I understand sleep apnea and CPAP. I share John's tent. Test your gear before you go out. Especially your solar charging unit. I've been around plenty of people with sleep apnea and general snoring. John's is, as he describes it, severe. Most people could not share his tent as they'd be not only kept awake by the noise but the fear of what was happening to him.

You can manage your sleep apnea in the backcountry IF you get the proper equipment and IF you practice using it. You also have to be able to carry your stuff. Just like everything else we do. Failure to prepare is preparing to fail.
homebru

 

[I Beam]

I really appreciate all the good information. It would be nice to get outdoors like I did when I was younger, without worrying I was going to not wake up the next day or more likely not enjoy the day because I didn't sleep. Even though I'm 46, I can sleep pretty much anywhere, but I really struggle without the CPAP.
Next appointment with the specialist, I'll see what they suggest. I'm overdue for a new machine so maybe insurance will cover, if not. I'll pony up. Heck, I've spent as much on gear easily.

 

[timekiller13]

Some good info on here. While I do not wear CPAP, my uncle does and he is going elk hunting with me this year. We are not bivying, we are car camping but there is no power supply. I have a small generator that would run the CPAP all night but do not want to hear a generator going all night. So I've been doing some research myself. There is a CPAP forum (google it) and there is tons of info on their about people who regularly camp with their CPAP. For car/base camping purposes without electrical power supply, I am going to bring a deep cycle battery and hook up the CPAP to it. From what I have researched, he should be able to get 3-5 nights off of it depending on the setting. Of course, spiking/bivying presents a different issue, in terms of weight and space, but I'm sure there is someone out there who has perfected it. Probably would cost you some money for the components that would be small enough and light enough for backpacking, though.

 

[Shraggs]

Wanted to share some information from this years hunt regarding my medical equipment setup and performance.

Earlier in this post i mentioned that one Goal Zero sherpa 50 can power my HDM Z1 16 hours or two nights at 70 degrees and sea level. In the mountains, at 9-10000' and evenings that have ranged in temp of 28 to 43 i get about 10 hours. two short nights...

i used small hand warmers stuck to the sherpa 50. I've been using a hammock last couple of years, and the sherpa goes next to me clipped on a loop and under my quilt. my Z1 goes in the overhead netting.

i significantly improved the run time to about 14 hours! that is two 6-7 hour nights of use, pretty reasonable in the back country.

john

 

[Jsunkler]

On my last elk hunt, 2 buddies brought their CPAP machines to base camp with a deep cycle 12 volt battery. Their machines had a cigarette lighter male plug adapter which they plugged into a cigarette lighter female adapter attached to the battery by alligator clips. They slept great and didnt have any issues. This was truck camping so we had just about everything and the kitchen sink with us.