Is my tent too much weight

[Xxtavixx]

Right, I think I was not clear enough with my response. I should plan it like I am going solo - but not. Ideally what I aim to do is break the group up with a "base" camp but have 2 and 2. The guy I am hoping to have go with me is much like I am (mentioned in my post about a half hour ago) and I don't think he and I as a pack would have to run back to the truck. One of my biggest fears with this type of a hunt of people getting reliant on the "planner" and not being as prepared as they can be. I know I am still not going to be prepared, but I am trying to limit my level of unpreparedness as much as possible.

 

[rodney482]

BA's are great.
I will run my jetboil in the morning (while making coffee) heats my tent right up.
I can see a teepee with stove being very nice for late season hunts

All great advice guys - thank you so much!

As far what seasons, that is an interesting question. Over the weekend a buddy asked me if I would pack in with him for an archery Elk/Mule hunt, and I would just be support and the following year he would do the same for me (but rifle). If I took this offer, it would make a lot of things better for me on my hunt. The guy is like me, he hunts. He plans and thinks. He's a better deer than I am (plus), and I know we are like minded. So if I pack in for his hunt, that would be archery season. For my hunt, I'm looking to go as quickly as I can into rifle season, which will likely be OTC. I feel like waiting too late in the season is a bad idea for a Florida boy. We aren't used to that much cold. With that said, I've always favored the cold.

I certainly see the logic of having a base camp near the truck and just going out with spike tents once we find elk. Part of what "sways" me against a floorless is that it would be difficult to test locally. We have mosquito almost year round. Maybe what I can do is use my glamping tent with it's extra weight as a sort of additional weight training and practice setting up a tarp on the rare mosquito free periods we get.

A few questions:
-At what point do you strongly recommend an oven?
-Putting spikes into the ground was mentioned, I've often wondered about that and is partly what makes me think a free-standing tent or tarp set up is ideal. At what point does it become impossible to drive the spikes?
-It seems like past second season, rain is less of a concern than snow. Is this true?
-Are Big Agnes tents good enough? We have an REI locally and I can score them at a garage sale. I was looking at a Fly Creek 2 person and it's 2.5 lbs

 

[FlyGuy]

-At what point do you strongly recommend an oven?

I'll preface my answer on the stove by saying I haven't done any late season backpack hunting, but I think of a stove as a nicety not a necessity. (I am talking about ultralight woodburning stoves btw, not a jetboil stove for cooking.) You don't need a stove to backpack hunt, you just need a good bag and a good pad. A stove is not going to keep you warm all night, your sleep system needs to do that - regardless of the temps. Think of the mountain climbing or even sheep hunting guys that are camped for extended periods well above tree line. Those are extreme cold temps but they don't use stoves b/c there is no wood that high up to burn. If you are relying on your stove to supplement a sub-par bag, then you won't get much sleep. burn time is ~ 40-60 min, so it's good for warming up a cold tent/bag before climbing in; and to make it a lot easier to get out of your bag on a frosty morning.

Having said that, if I am going to be camping from the same location for 3 nights or more, then I'll still take my stove even when it's not too cold. Its nice on a rainy day when stuck in the tent, nice to dry out gear if you get wet in a squall, and to knock down condensation in the morning. But its just enough of a PITA to set up that I won't mess with it for a short trip. I leave for WY this Sunday and I'm planning to pack into a stationary basecamp for up to 10 days. I'll pack the stove in there and set up with a Tut, but if I spike out for a night or two from there it will just be in small tarp and no stove.

Anyway, I wouldn't base the decision on when you need a stove on the Temperature, base it on where you are with higher priority gear. it sounds like you have a good bit of gear to assemble & upgrade (which is half the fun) at this point, so I would say to spend your money on your bag, your pad & your shelter, and don't worry about the stove until you have those three nailed down. Heck I'd also put your boots and pack and clothing system/rain gear ahead of the stove purchase. So buy the stove once you have all that stuff to a level you feel confident with. You will use those far more.

And if you get the chance to tag along and hunt with your buddy this September then I would strongly encourage you to do so. Experience is the best teacher so grab that opportunity to learn and test out your gear and your theories. (just be careful, you might enjoy it so much that you have to add a bow to your gear list)

 

[Xxtavixx]

-At what point do you strongly recommend an oven?

I'll preface my answer on the stove by saying I haven't done any late season backpack hunting, but I think of a stove as a nicety not a necessity. (I am talking about ultralight woodburning stoves btw, not a jetboil stove for cooking.) You don't need a stove to backpack hunt, you just need a good bag and a good pad. A stove is not going to keep you warm all night, your sleep system needs to do that - regardless of the temps. Think of the mountain climbing or even sheep hunting guys that are camped for extended periods well above tree line. Those are extreme cold temps but they don't use stoves b/c there is no wood that high up to burn. If you are relying on your stove to supplement a sub-par bag, then you won't get much sleep. burn time is ~ 40-60 min, so it's good for warming up a cold tent/bag before climbing in; and to make it a lot easier to get out of your bag on a frosty morning.

Having said that, if I am going to be camping from the same location for 3 nights or more, then I'll still take my stove even when it's not too cold. Its nice on a rainy day when stuck in the tent, nice to dry out gear if you get wet in a squall, and to knock down condensation in the morning. But its just enough of a PITA to set up that I won't mess with it for a short trip. I leave for WY this Sunday and I'm planning to pack into a stationary basecamp for up to 10 days. I'll pack the stove in there and set up with a Tut, but if I spike out for a night or two from there it will just be in small tarp and no stove.

Anyway, I wouldn't base the decision on when you need a stove on the Temperature, base it on where you are with higher priority gear. it sounds like you have a good bit of gear to assemble & upgrade (which is half the fun) at this point, so I would say to spend your money on your bag, your pad & your shelter, and don't worry about the stove until you have those three nailed down. Heck I'd also put your boots and pack and clothing system/rain gear ahead of the stove purchase. So buy the stove once you have all that stuff to a level you feel confident with. You will use those far more.

And if you get the chance to tag along and hunt with your buddy this September then I would strongly encourage you to do so. Experience is the best teacher so grab that opportunity to learn and test out your gear and your theories. (just be careful, you might enjoy it so much that you have to add a bow to your gear list)

Thanks for the input! I ask about the stove, because I currently have it at about the lowest priority. It just seems like a hassle to have to deal with. Ive enjoyed gearing up, and I feel like most of the "major" purchases are done outside of the shelter and sleep system. The only other item is the pack, which I am 90% to change.

For sleep bags and pad I will probably keep an eye out on the classifieds and look at REI garage sales when they come around. Sometimes I get really bad tension migraines, so I'm willing to carry a few extra lbs for comfort with the pad/bag. I would be devastated if I lost time on the hunt because I could not get rid of a headache. The Big agnes tents can be found on ebay for under $200 in like new shape, if that is the route I go.

 

[AXEL]

VERY well said, a stove-shelter is nice, but, can also be a major hassle in many situations. BTDT, BC hunting into pretty cold temps and deep snow, usually with a good 3 person exped. tent, pads and bag and this is most efficient, overall.

 

[xziang]

I think everyone hit the big items I thought of one other is sometimes where you go their isn't a good spot to put a 4 man tent. You may have two spots that are good for two 2 man tents better.

My first tent was a stoic 2 person tent which worked well and didn't kill the pocket book. IIRC it was 140.00 from backcountry. BigAgnes are good tents and would go towards one of those, I run a msr nx hubba hubba once again pocket book played into my decision there.

 

[Xxtavixx]

I think everyone hit the big items I thought of one other is sometimes where you go their isn't a good spot to put a 4 man tent. You may have two spots that are good for two 2 man tents better.

My first tent was a stoic 2 person tent which worked well and didn't kill the pocket book. IIRC it was 140.00 from backcountry. BigAgnes are good tents and would go towards one of those, I run a msr nx hubba hubba once again pocket book played into my decision there.

Now THAT is something I did not even consider. Man, I love this forum. I lurked for years before finally joining (I admit, I joined because I found something in the classifieds that I had to have!)

 

[GKPrice]

Im going to tell you something different. For your first hunt, forget about packing in and use that tent at a truck camp. It Doesn't matter what it weighs when you only pack it 20 yards.

I am a planner too, but I can tell you that if you read everything out there and watch every YouTube video on this, you still wont be prepared for a backcountry hunt with 4 rookies on your 1st time out. Non-resident DIY Elk hunting is hard stuff. There are a million things that can throw you off. Figuring out the logistics of food for your group; how to communicate with each other if you break into pairs; map skills, getting your clothing and shooting and sleep system dialed in... finding elk. And, if there are 4 of you, then at least 1 of them isn't as big of a planner as you are (and most likely 3 of them aren't). All those things make it complicated. But if you add "packing in your basecamp" in to the mix, then that takes the complication to a whole new level. Everyone has to have ALL their gear dialed in beforehand (food rations, bow, etc, etc.), b/c if anyone of you makes a mistake in just one of these areas, then they have to pack back out to fix it. And they probably won't be alone if they are first timers - so 2 of you will likely be coming out. And If there is just one tent, all of you are.

So, my answer is Hell yeah that tent is too heavy to pack in. So don't. Worry about that for the 2nd trip, or the 3rd. Let everyone learn some things about their gear, about themselves, and about hunting elk doing to dayhunts from base Camp this time. Have some fun and make it a ton less stressful on yourselves.




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Listen to FlyGuy and you'll end up enjoying your trip ALOT more I think ..... You will never be able to map into a new unknown area and find 4 elk, leave yourself jumping off options by truck base camping it and sleep & eat well

 

[sodaksooner]

Look at Bear Paw Wilderness Designs for more affordable shelters. Look at the Luna 4 or 6.

BP

Beat me to it. We have the luna 6, but loaded it up. Plenty of room and lightweight, even with a stove. One of the more reasonably priced ones.

On the floorless subject, if you are worried about being able to use it elsewhere, you can purchase a nest for most tipi style tents, which is a floored,screened inner tent. don't really need that in the high country in a lot of places, but that gives you the option to use it in bug and snake country with just a small weight premium. And you can pick it up later as funds allow.

Don't know if anyone mentioned the nest thing already or not.

 

[LaGriz]

TiGoat Vertex 6.5 tipi and Cylinder stove








Just posted in the classified adds. Can't speak for the seller as I don't know of him. This would be a good last minute purchase for your pending hunt as you have little time to shop. Could always resell it after your hunt is finished. LaGriz


"I have up for sale a TiGoat Vertex 6.5 tipi in tan with carbon pole and a medium cylinder stove. I've never used the tipi or stove other than setting up to seam seal or to burn in the stove. I bought it last September and never got to use it. I'll try to set it up to get some pics tomorrow. $700 tyd"

 

[Xxtavixx]

TiGoat Vertex 6.5 tipi and Cylinder stove








Just posted in the classified adds. Can't speak for the seller as I don't know of him. This would be a good last minute purchase for your pending hunt as you have little time to shop. Could always resell it after your hunt is finished. LaGriz


"I have up for sale a TiGoat Vertex 6.5 tipi in tan with carbon pole and a medium cylinder stove. I've never used the tipi or stove other than setting up to seam seal or to burn in the stove. I bought it last September and never got to use it. I'll try to set it up to get some pics tomorrow. $700 tyd"

Thank you! That is a bit more than my budget would afford currently, I'd probably be looking a fair bit cheaper like a $300 for now. I would also prefer to not have to deal with a stove, as luxurious as it might make the camping...

It sounds like my existing tent would be OK for a base camp at/near the truck and I'll look for a 2 person tent for myself. I almost pulled the trigger on a Big Agnes Fly Creek 2 that was 40% off, but I really would like a side entrance rather than head on.

 

[COlineman78]

Thanks for the input! I ask about the stove, because I currently have it at about the lowest priority. It just seems like a hassle to have to deal with. Ive enjoyed gearing up, and I feel like most of the "major" purchases are done outside of the shelter and sleep system. The only other item is the pack, which I am 90% to change.

The main advantage of a stove is to dry your gear out. If you are going go to be archery, muzzy or even 1st rifle it's probably not even worth considering, but for later riffle seasons they are very nice for drying out your gear in the evening. On a similar note, a synthetic bag is probably a better choice if you plan on going later season without a stove. Yes they do allow you to be warmer when you fall asleep, but most of that heat is gone by morning, so you'll still need a bag warm enough to handle the overnight temps.

Just a reminder that Big Agnes tents are very small for their size ratings; a 2 person tent is on average only 44" wide or so, so neither of you can have a 25" wide pad.

 

[Xxtavixx]

The main advantage of a stove is to dry your gear out. If you are going go to be archery, muzzy or even 1st rifle it's probably not even worth considering, but for later riffle seasons they are very nice for drying out your gear in the evening. On a similar note, a synthetic bag is probably a better choice if you plan on going later season without a stove. Yes they do allow you to be warmer when you fall asleep, but most of that heat is gone by morning, so you'll still need a bag warm enough to handle the overnight temps.

Just a reminder that Big Agnes tents are very small for their size ratings; a 2 person tent is on average only 44" wide or so, so neither of you can have a 25" wide pad.

I still have a lot to learn with sleeping bags. Around here we measure by how cool it keeps you at night!

Yea, I was thinking the Big Agnes 2 person would really be for me and my gear only. Does anyone have any experience with the REI co-op brand tents? They seem fairly inexpensive and I know some people who really like them, but they tend to be heavier - around 5 plus for a 2.

 

[tyeager2964]

REI makes good products. They are typically a little heavier and a little slower on innovation, but buy and large most reviews will say their products are a good midpriced items and durable. I don't have experience with their tents but have 3 air pads, multiple items of clothing, and miscellaneous gear.

Just compare size and weight because i would be willing to bet longevity and weather won't be your concern with an REI tent

And new members get 20% off one item I believe and a 10% reimbursement on full priced items at the end of the year in the form of a coupon.

You can also look at Alps Mountaineering. I have an Ares 4 man that I would be willing to use on an early season hunt with no trepidation. Alps products can be found on steep and cheap or the clymb at 50% off

 

[COlineman78]

I still have a lot to learn with sleeping bags. Around here we measure by how cool it keeps you at night!

Yea, I was thinking the Big Agnes 2 person would really be for me and my gear only. Does anyone have any experience with the REI co-op brand tents? They seem fairly inexpensive and I know some people who really like them, but they tend to be heavier - around 5 plus for a 2.

As far as sleeping bags; pretty simple... synthetic still provides warmth when wet, but they are heavier, bulkier and cheaper on average. Down is lighter, smaller and more expensive on average but doesn't do crap when wet (treated down will resist some moisture)

I have an REI Half Dome 2+ as my main free standing tent. It is a little on the heavier side but will work for 2 people and I have had it in some snow. Replace the stakes with MSR ground hogs and the guy line with 2mm stuff (I use Lawson glow wire) and you can get under 5lb. For the price it is plenty good. The reason I went with the REI over the Big Agnes is twofold: 1) Smaller BA tents only have one door, which is very inconvenient. 2) The floor on the BA tents are so thin that I would be hesitant to use them without a footprint. The REI are plenty thick to be used on their own.

 

[Xxtavixx]

Alright - been doing something thinking and researching. I'm really liking the idea of a floorless shelter, but I have one big concern. I basically cannot test it locally. If I tried to sleep in a floorless shelter in Florida I think I would die from blood loss with how bad the mosquitos are. Then, we have the ants...

I'm not really a fan of taking gear I have not proofed well, and I'm struggling to find a good way to test this more than once or twice when I can drive far enough to test it. Would you have enough faith in something like the mountainsmith LT to trust it without much hands on experience, or just advise using an ultralight tent and testing it several times since it will help with the mosquito and ants.

 

[COlineman78]

Alright - been doing something thinking and researching. I'm really liking the idea of a floorless shelter, but I have one big concern. I basically cannot test it locally. If I tried to sleep in a floorless shelter in Florida I think I would die from blood loss with how bad the mosquitos are. Then, we have the ants...

I'm not really a fan of taking gear I have not proofed well, and I'm struggling to find a good way to test this more than once or twice when I can drive far enough to test it. Would you have enough faith in something like the mountainsmith LT to trust it without much hands on experience, or just advise using an ultralight tent and testing it several times since it will help with the mosquito and ants.

Almost costs more than the Mountainsmith LT by itself, but you could grab one of these to allow for testing at home:

Borah Gear: Ultralight Bug Bivy

Depending on where/when you are going out west you may consider bringing it along but usually not necessary. I have a Mountainsmith LT I'll sell you cheap if you're looking to go that way. I personally have come to the decision that if I'm going floorless I want to be able to stand up, but I'm not a weight weenie; I'll carry whatever I need to be comfortable.

 

[Xxtavixx]

Im with you - i will carry a few extra lbs to get comfort. If I sleep funny, I get a bad tension headache...good idea on the bivy, wonder how good it works with angs

 

[Violent Hippie]

That tent seems excessive and unnecessary. The weight at 10 pounds and the packed size of 2 feet long is over the top . The space it takes up is alot of room in your pack. More than half that weight and packed dimension is more common in a 3 man which would be fine for 2 guys and gear. This is for 3 season conditions and not winter conditions. I'd use multiple other options . If your truck camping and driving in thats a different story .

 

[Violent Hippie]

That tent seems excessive and unnecessary. The weight at 10 pounds and the packed size of 2 feet long is over the top . The space it takes up is alot of room in your pack. More than half that weight and packed dimension is more common in a 3 man which would be fine for 2 guys and gear. This is for 3 season conditions and not winter conditions. I'd use multiple other options . If your truck camping and driving in thats a different story .