Bag for Alaska Caribou

[austinphps]

Synthetic or Down? I know the pro's/con's of both so really just want what would be better for an Alaskan caribou hunt - Early/Mid September time hunting in the southern parts of Units 16B/19C.

I currently have a 0 degree Kelty down bag. And it has been great in CO (although I do need to wash it cause I definitely start to feel a chill around 10 degrees), but that's besides the point.

I have read on this forum that rain could be brutal. Ideally we will be staying in a tipi with a stove; but that will depend on availability of wood. If there isn't plentiful wood than we will probably have some 4 season type - 4 man tent with a couple tarps for gear.

So is it worth the risk of taking a down sleeping bag and having it rain on us for the entire trip is what i'm really concerned about?
If it's a non factor than I will just stick with my current setup (bringing a kifaru woobie as well); but if we run the risk of getting everything soaked I want to consider buying a synthetic setup.

Other than the kifaru slick bag, are there any good synthetic bags in the 0 and below temp rating?

 

[Gunnersdad49]

Synthetic. Alaska is wet. Even when it is sunny, everything seems to get soaked.

Regarding limited wood, we just did a float hunt on the north slope, and there were no trees. There were alders though. The driftwood we found and the dead stuff we could collect for the stove in the tipi was almost all soaked. We brought a couple of the Duraflame logs, and cut them into 4 or 5 pieces. One piece would usually get a fire going pretty well, and we stacked other stuff around the stove to dry. If you stay in one spot for a few days at a time, that system seems to work pretty well.

 

[austinphps]

Thanks Gunner - can you recommend the synthetic bag you used? Would I need a 0 degree bag at that time of year?
Like the idea of the duraflame, that would all depend on our weight of gear though so could be out of the question. I will have to ask the outfitter on availability of wood to see if it's even justifiable to bring tipi/stove

 

[Gunnersdad49]

I won't name the bag that I used on this trip, because it underwhelmed me. I did, however, use a Kifaru Woobie that absolutely saved the day when combined with the bag. I have a Wiggy's 0degree bag I should have brought, but wanted to save a few ounces. The Wiggy's did great for me in 15 degree temps at altitude this rifle season for elk.

I also found that my gear weight had a bit more flexibility than advertised when we offered the transporter a nice bottle of hooch.
Below are a few pictures to keep you excited about your adventure, and a look at the firewood we used.

 

[Gunnersdad49]

a couple more that show the terrain

 

[austinphps]

Fair enough - i'm looking at a Mtn Hardware Lamina or HyperLamina right now but will need to do more research on those.

Man, looks like an awesome trip - I really want to take the tipi if it's doable so I'll have to discuss with the transporter. I know 1 spot supposedly has good wood and 1 doesn't.

 

[oenanthe]

I wouldn't get too hung up on synthetic vs. down. Even on long sheep hunts sleeping under a tarp in rain and snow, I've never had any trouble keeping a down bag dry. For what it's worth, I've been hunting in Alaska for over 30 years, and currently have four bags, all down. Sold my last synthetic bag last year as it just wasn't warm anymore.

 

[Owenst7]

I hunted just about every game species in Alaska during the 25 years I lived there. I didn't own a single piece of down until I moved to Nevada and started backpacking. If I went on any hunt in Alaska, short of a float-in hunt, I'd bring a down bag. The only time I've ever gotten a bag wet to the point of a problem was getting dumped in a river. For that matter, a float bag still weighs less than the weight difference between a synthetic bag and the equivalent down bag. When going out in conditions with lots of opportunity to get wet, I use a float/dry bag and an effective shelter. Getting your sleeping bag wet is a major talent failure, no matter what it's made of.

If I were on the market for another synthetic bag, I'd buy something cheap. The last synthetic bag I ever purchased was more expensive than equivalent down bags, and it lost over 50% of its loft within the first five years. I just don't see the point in spending any significant amount of money on them. They don't last.

If I were going to do a lot of rafting trips, I might buy a Wiggy's bag when they're on sale. They're tough and warm, but they are outrageously heavy for their loft.

 

[Matt W.]

Fair enough - i'm looking at a Mtn Hardware Lamina or HyperLamina right now but will need to do more research on those.

........

I spent some time in the Mt Hardwear Hyperlamina Torch 0 this fall. It is a well designed bag and worked great. Its a pretty nice bag for the money. I scored mine via a promotion Campsaver.com was having. If weight is not a concern I'd go with the warmest bag you can take, you can always unzip to cool off. I've used Wiggy bags as well, but they are a heavy bulky bag I have only used in base camp scenarios.

 

[austinphps]

Thanks, Oenanthe and Owenst, exactly what I was hoping to hear. For transport I always throw mine in a waterproof bag.

Weight will be an issue High Country; which is why I would prefer a down bag - just wanted to assure myself that it getting soaked isn't really an issue unless I screw up. The Hyperlamina is appealing for the price; but if down is on the table I'm thinking of a WM Lynx or Puma (which I know is waaaaay more expensive, but from suggestions/research, well worth it). Might be overkill for that early/mid september range in Alaska; but at the same time I don't want to even remotely be cold at night.

 

[JFKinYK]

I'd be talking to this guy - some great prices on down (WM lynx) and treated down bags (Marmot helium and lithium).

FS: MARMOT DOWN SLEEPING BAGS - Backpacking Light

 

[Owenst7]

Since it's related to your choice of bag insulation, as climbing in a wet bag every night while wet could cause you problems, I'll point out that I run a pretty specific layering system during that season in Alaska. I absolutely will not wear any wool (not even merino, which I wear pretty much everywhere) or cotton. My base layer is 100% polyester, and usually a pretty lightweight knit. My next layer is 100% polyester fleece...I'm a fan of ~200 weight for just about every condition, but fall season in Alaska is one situation where I sometimes go to thicker fleece. Sometimes I'll do a form-fitting lightweight fleece and layer a baggy, heavier one over it. Whatever I do, after my base layer and fleece layer, my clothes start to get really baggy. If you look at the traditional garb the natives wore, their outer layers for cold and wet weather were always super baggy. It traps a lot of warm air for insulation, and it provides way better ventilation than any "breathable" garment does. I tend to be really hot and move a lot during the day, so I don't have issues wearing my stuff dry if my rain layer is baggy and can get a lot of fresh air in it. For that matter, my rain layer has at most a thin mesh lining and zero insulation. All the condensation ends up there, so I want something I can wipe the water out of if I get really sweaty.

Thing about polyester (and especially polyester fleece) completely saturated, it's only holding like 5% of its weight as water. If you get soaked right before bed, you can take off your base layer and sling it around over your head for a minute and it will be pretty much totally dry. It's really easy to wear it dry so long as your core temp is where it should be. Even if you take a swim in a river, if all your insulation is polyester, you can wring it out, put it back on, and you'll be dry in an hour. I love the feel of merino against my skin, but it takes me a couple hours to wear the damp out of my base layers after I field-wash them, even down here in Nevada. Climbing into a down bag with damp base layers every night when it rains for 7+ days straight would be tempting fate a bit.

 

[Owenst7]

I'd be talking to this guy - some great prices on down (WM lynx) and treated down bags (Marmot helium and lithium).

FS: MARMOT DOWN SLEEPING BAGS - Backpacking Light

If his 0* Kelty has ~7" of loft...I don't think he has much to worry about with his current bag.

My Kelty Cosmic 20F has like 4-5", which is real close to an Alpinlite. Assuming their 0F bags are similar, I'd say they're probably 5-10 degrees behind a WM bag of like rating.

That Lynx is a cool bag, but my Antelope is more bag than the bag I used for interior Alaska during the winter when it was frequently -20F or colder. I'd be reluctant to invest in a bag warmer than my Antelope unless I was planning on doing a lot of camping well below zero.

I didn't spend much time in 16/19, but the Talkeetnas were usually around 15-35F during that time of year at 3-4k feet.

 

[austinphps]

Thanks for the tip Owens. my base layers are the cabelas ecwcs system (mid weight leggings and a polar weight top) and a heavy weight pair of polypropylene leggings that i got from a buddy in the military so that's what i have and what i would go with. Maybe pick up the midweight top.

Those WM bags are pretty awesome but 800 bucks is a tough pill to swallow. Ill look at the antelope. My kelty 0 has been real good but i havent washed it in 4 years so i know it has lost some loft/degree rating. I just ordered the nikwax down wash so I'm hoping that gives it back some life/loft.

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[austinphps]

I need to upgrade my rain system and was looking at the kuiu Yukon jacket. Ill keep in mind the baggy fit for the outer layers

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[Gunnersdad49]

Great minds... I got the Yukon for this trip. Ordered a XXL to go over my XL superdown. It was big enough to wear over my bino harness too. Order your regular size if layering over their insulation

 

[austinphps]

Great minds... I got the Yukon for this trip. Ordered a XXL to go over my XL superdown. It was big enough to wear over my bino harness too. Order your regular size if layering over their insulation

Howd it hold up? I just have their attack pants but have liked them for the 2 years elk hunting. Also looking at FL and Sitka, maybe kryptek but I like the versatily (as far as the description) on the yukon

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[oenanthe]

Lots of good advice in this post from owenst7. I won't restate it all, but the points on synthetics vs. wool and roomy outer layers are spot on. About the only area where I differ just a little is that I wouldn't carry more than 100-wt fleece unless I was on a cold, wet river trip. Even for cold, wet sheep hunts I find that base-layer + 100-wt fleece + rainshell is plenty when moving, and then I throw on the down puffy when I stop. But that's all individual preference.

I've also gradually moved away from wool for backcountry hunts. I still use it a lot for day trips, but for long backcountry hunts it's substantially heavier than synthetics for equal warmth, and retains much more water.

Seems like when I was younger I could suffer a bit more, and still function after a sleepless night. Anymore, I need to sleep well to hunt hard the next day, so I put a lot more emphasis on sleeping warm and dry. To sleep comfortably, it's awfully nice to change into a dry shirt, long undies, and socks at bedtime. Conditions have to be pretty miserable before I'll allow those last dry clothes to get wet; they usually ride in my dry pack. And when it comes to drying clothes in my bag, I'd usually rather not. Normally if I have a lot of wet clothes I take them off for the night, and put them on in the morning after I've had a good sleep and a big breakfast; then I can dry them out while I'm on the move. Although that first 15 minutes in cold, wet clothes and frozen boots sure sucks, it's fine once you've been moving briskly for a bit.

All this is reminding me of wet days, frosty nights, and frozen boots LOL.

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[austinphps]

Great advice you guys. Veered off topic about bags for a minute but gained some great knowledge for my future Alaskan hunt/hunts that I will definitely use for when my dad and I go.

 

[Gunnersdad49]

Howd it hold up? I just have their attack pants but have liked them for the 2 years elk hunting. Also looking at FL and Sitka, maybe kryptek but I like the versatily (as far as the description) on the yukon

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Held up awesome. Never once got wet through it. I ordered a XXL, everything else I bought from them was XL. I figured that should give me plenty of room to layer underneath. I guess Kuiu already thought of that, because this thing is about a size too big for me. I kept it anyway, and I was able to protect my AGC bino harness from the rain and snow by putting the jacket over it and zipping it up. I looked like a bearded pregnant lady.

I chose to use the Yukon as my shell layer, skipping the Guide jacket they offer. Worked like a charm. No snags or tears in the alders.