Quick advice on a pad

[Huntingpreacher]

Hey guys, I took my first backcountry trip last month and need to refine my sleep system. I got cold in a supposed 0* synthetic bag in 30* weather while wearing down pants, down jacket, synthetic insulated jacket, as well as thermals. I've accepted my bag is not up to par so I started by replacing it. My second step is to potentially change my sleeping pad. I slept on an ultralight Helinox cot and old school Thermarest Ridgeline foam pad. What changes do I need to make to my pad to be warmer? (Please note I have already upgraded my bag and I've experimented with different clothing systems.) Thanks!

 

[colersu22]

It looks like that pad only has an R value of 2.6 which works fine in the summer/warm weather but if you get a pad with an R value of 5+ that will help.

I have an Exped 9LW and it has an R value of 6 and it has helped me in the cold weather and is more comfortable than my bed at home. It is on sale at REI right now for a good price.

Exped SynMat 9 LW Air Pad with Pump - REI.com

 

[colonel00]

Wow you were that cold wearing all of that and in a 0* bag? Are you naturally cold blooded? Like, if you were just out in 30* temps, would you need to wear more than what you were wearing to be warm? Everybody is different which makes stuff like this so hard to give advice on. For me, I would have been so hot just in the clothes that I would probably have been sweating all night in your setup.

This may sound weird but wearing all of those clothes in a bag may have actually defeated the insulation properties. Down and synthetic need to expand to insulate. If you had a down jacket on with an synthetic jacket over it and then you were tucked into your bag, you may have been compressing the jacket(s) which defeats the purpose.

Anyway first thought would be that being on the cot may have actually made it colder as you would have cold air circulating under it continuously stealing warmth from you. I agree with colersu22 that you'd want a pad with more R value. I love my XTherm. I can't remember what it's R value is off hand but it's got plenty.

 

[Owenst7]

How thick is your 0° bag?

I personally just start to get chilled with a 5" bag around 32° while sleeping on a R 1.3 pad with just thin base layers. Adding a R 2.6 Ridgerest under me (so total of 3.9) will make me hot at that point. Where were you cold? When my back is cold but my bag is warm enough, I roll around a lot and can feel the cold underneath me.

CCF on a cot is a great setup for comfort for me. I assume you aren't packing in, because even the 2 lbs cots would be outrageous to carry on your back. When I'm not packing in, I run a self inflating mat, which is about as warm as you can get. My favorites are the lightspeed 3" thick ones from Costco.

I just picked up an XTherm for winter use, but I had planned on a Klymit insulated static V. I use the uninsulated Klymit in the summer and have found it to be more comfortable than any other pad in the <20 oz range.

One thing I don't see a lot of people do is move the feathers in their bag to adjust for temps. When it's cold, I shake all my feather in to the top of my bag so I'm not wasting any by laying on them. I do the opposite in the summer to stay cool enough. I've lent bags to people that were far warmer than they needed and they've been cold. I showed them that truck and then they were too hot the next night. Obviously you can't do that with synthetic. Whatever their rating is, make sure you only count the loft divided by 2, and figure out the real rating base on that number. 2" of insulation crushed under you to 1/8" isn't going to do you any good, especially sandwiched between you and a warm pad where you don't need it.

 

[Huntingpreacher]

Colorsu22, thanks for the info. I'll look into that pad. Colonel00, yeah I probably lean on the cold side, good observation. Owenst7, I was cold on my arms. I attribute that to air gaps inside the sleeping bag. It's an older Slumberjak mummy bag, but built larger than I need. I'm 6'1" and 175 so I run on the thin side. Thanks for the insight on how to evaluate bag warmth. Does anyone have any experience on the comfort of these higher end mats versus a cot? I can rough it all day hunting, but I'm a big wuss when it comes to being comfortable at night! Thanks!

 

[Huntingpreacher]

Would anyone recommend combining my Thermarest Ridgeline with a good air mattress to increase R value, but still provide versatility in the field?

 

[Owenst7]

Would anyone recommend combining my Thermarest Ridgeline with a good air mattress to increase R value, but still provide versatility in the field?

That's what I do sometimes in swing seasons. The CCF pad provides a little more protection to my inflatable pad than a ground cloth. I also unroll it and set my backpack at one end and leave the tail end rolled up under my knees. Makes a great glassing pad that way. The downside is carrying an inflatable + a ridgerest is about a pound heavier than just carrying my XTherm.

If I'm not packing in very far, doing a spike camp where I will have to do multiple trips to pack out (like packing out an elk), or something like that, I like the utility of a CCF pad. It's worth considering the redundancy in the event that your inflatable fails beyond repair (never seen that happen though). In a situation like a warmer weather mulie hunt where I'll probably want to pack everything out in one trip and/or a bivy hunt where I carry everything with my everywhere, I'll save the pound and just carry a warm inflatable.

If you can actually get a decent night's sleep on just a CCF pad (I can't), you may just want to double up on CCF pads. Or, you could cut a torso-length section of a second one just for insulating your core. That short section would be handy for glassing, eating, etc. May be handy to fold up and supplement your pack's frame with, depending on your pack. Carrying just one CCF pad is annoyingly bulky for me personally though.

 

[Huntingpreacher]

Thank you Owenst7. I can't sleep on just the ccf pad alone. I may try to combine it with an air mattress. Even though it's a little more weight, it's still lighter than my current set up which is a Helinox cot (2lb, 9oz) and ccf pad (14oz). I like being able to use the Ridgeline in the field during the day. It makes glassing/sitting a lot more comfortable.

 

[mlevimadden]

Thank you Owenst7. I can't sleep on just the ccf pad alone. I may try to combine it with an air mattress. Even though it's a little more weight, it's still lighter than my current set up which is a Helinox cot (2lb, 9oz) and ccf pad (14oz). I like being able to use the Ridgeline in the field during the day. It makes glassing/sitting a lot more comfortable.

If you're already carrying a ccf pad, just add a NeoAir X-Lite. I have 4 sections of a thermarest z-lite sol that I use for my butt pad for sitting and glassing during the day. Then at night, I use it under my x-lite from my hip to shoulder area to increase insulation and add a little protection for the inflatable pad.

 

[Huntingpreacher]

Thanks mlevimadden. Have you had any issues with durability with that pad?

 

[mlevimadden]

I just switched to the regular x-lite this spring, so I only have about 15-20 nights on mine so far, but I haven't had any leaks yet. That was my main concern with switching to the x-lite (I used the x-therm for the last two years). I use a floorless shelter with no ground-sheet and just take a minute to check for sharp rocks or sticks right before setting up my pad. I would have zero durability or warmth concerns if I was running a full-length ccf pad under the x-lite.

The x-therm is the better pad if durability is your main concern (70D on the bottom compared to 30D all-around on the x-lite) or if you weren't using a foam pad and constantly camping in winter temperatures. I have been comfortable down to the mid-20's with my x-lite and 20 degree revelation quilt.

Once you spend a night on an inflatable pad, you will never go back to a ccf pad.

 

[Huntingpreacher]

Got it! That's very helpful.

 

[rayporter]

almost certainly a pad issue.
if you are still cold add the closed cell pad over the inflatable. i do this all the time to keep my ol bones from locking up. i have a thin quarter in. pad that rolls small and is just enough down to 15 deg or so. below that i like a half incher.

 

[Rokwiia]

I have an Exped Synmat 9 LW but when it goes below freezing I use the Exped Downmat 9 LW. Maybe I sleep cold and need more warmth but it works for me. It just plain feels like there is a furnace beneath me and my back feels great in the morning.

I put a RidgeRest Solar beneath it.

 

[Huntingpreacher]

Got it. I've ordered a couple insulated pads to try.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

it looks like that pad only has an r value of 2.6 which works fine in the summer/warm weather but if you get a pad with an r value of 5+ that will help.

I have an exped 9lw and it has an r value of 6 and it has helped me in the cold weather and is more comfortable than my bed at home. It is on sale at rei right now for a good price.

exped synmat 9 lw air pad with pump - rei.com

^^^this!^^^
That 3.5" thick mattress is pure luxury.

 

[dog812]

Exped 9lw.... 42oz! If your Truck camping maybe...
The xtherm is 14oz. 1/3rd the weight.

 

[Huntingpreacher]

I ordered 3 pads to try... They're all in the 16-26 ounce range as I'll be using it for backcountry hunting and want to limit my weight. Thanks fellas!

 

[colersu22]

Exped 9lw.... 42oz! If your Truck camping maybe...
The xtherm is 14oz. 1/3rd the weight.

With the pad and cot the OP is currently using it is still a lighter option by 10 oz or so. I have been packing it in the past year and it is way more comfortable than my klymit insulated pad.

 

[Huntingpreacher]

Good point colersu22. Have you compared the comfort of that exped 9lw with many others? I ordered an exped downmat hl, xtherm, and BA Qcore slx to try.