Sleeping bag temp rating - need advice!

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Sep 3, 2014
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Sabinal, TX
I’m going to buy my first backpacking sleeping bag in about 20 years but I’m a little uncertain what ‘degree rating’ to go with. It’s going to be for use for spring bear and archery elk in Idaho and Wyoming and, possibly, 1st rifle. I may also go on some early scouting trips. I’m not a hot sleeper and I’m going to be using a Therm-a-rest NeoAir X-Lite pad. If I need to, I can always get a XTherm pad if the weather is going to get cold. I don’t have a lot of extra padding and tend to get cold fairly easily - especially when I’m tired.

What should I be looking for - 15°-20° or something warmer like a 30°? How much does the pad you’re using effect the actual warmth of your bag? Random example: if it’s 20° and I have a 30° bag on a NeoAir X-Lite pad will I be fine? What about if I switched to a XTherm pad?

Need some expert advice here! Too many options and my head is swimming. Lol!

I’m still debating between getting a Slik bag, a down bag (maybe Kuiu) and/or a EE quilt. Am I wrong to think I can probably get a lower temp rated bag and open it or vent it to use it in warmer weather? I’d like to get the most use I can out of it.




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oldgoat

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I'm a fairly warm sleeper and sleep in base layers in a 20 degree slick bag, I wouldn't go warmer than that I sleep on both a big Agnes q core or the fold up egg crate looking thing therma rest solite are something like that. I wouldn't count to much on the pad making you warmer as much as it don't make you colder if that makes sense. Q core is warmer than the other one though. My personal plan is the slick bag for most of the time and pack a woobie along for when it's colder!
 

JDZ

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My experience is with down bags. I'm provably an average temp sleeper, since I don't have another self to compare myself to. My 20-degree Eddie Bauer Karakoram bag is good down to maybe just a touch under 20 in my base layers on a NeoAir XTherm pad. At 30 I'm opening the hood, at 35 I'm unzipping, at 40 I'm sweating. My WM 35-degree bag is iffy at 35 and comfy from 40 to 50 on the XTherm.


I don't think you'll be comfy at 20 in a 30-degree bag on an XLite. I think the comfort ratings are figured with a good pad.

I have no doubt the Kuiu would be an excellent bag. But I think you pay a couple hundred bucks to shed those last few ounces.


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Buckman

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The coldest temps I'm usually in is the low to mid teens. 1st rifle Colorado. I am a cold sleeper and i started out with a bag rated for 15 degrees. Wasn't good enough. Went with a 5 degree Western Mountaineering bag. that worked way better. Same pad both times, Q core. Think part of reason it worked better was two fold, better temp rating and better quality bag. Now i wouldn't want to use that bag if it was very warm in a early season. Not all temp ratings are the same, a 10 degree bag that costs 200 bucks won't be as good as a 10 degree bag that costs 550 bucks. One long cold night and you'll wish you spent more, much more.
 
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Lakewood, CO
My experience is with down bags. I'm provably an average temp sleeper, since I don't have another self to compare myself to. My 20-degree Eddie Bauer Karakoram bag is good down to maybe just a touch under 20 in my base layers on a NeoAir XTherm pad. At 30 I'm opening the hood, at 35 I'm unzipping, at 40 I'm sweating. My WM 35-degree bag is iffy at 35 and comfy from 40 to 50 on the XTherm.


I don't think you'll be comfy at 20 in a 30-degree bag on an XLite. I think the comfort ratings are figured with a good pad.

I have no doubt the Kuiu would be an excellent bag. But I think you pay a couple hundred bucks to shed those last few ounces.


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I have a Hammock Gear quilt that I use for summer and hunts into mid Oct. I bought their 20 degree bag and added 2 oz. extra so its probably around a 15 degree bag. I've found its fairly easy to regulate in summer by not cinching the straps very snug. I have used it in the mid teens and haven't gotten cold at all but I always sleep in a base layer to avoid getting cold when exiting for a pee in the middle of the night or morning. I also use down booties during hunts as my feet have always gotten cold even in moderate temps and those have really helped me. I've never felt that I needed anything warmer than what I have.

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Dameon

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I’m 5’10” and 153 lbs. I have no insulation and can’t stay warm unless I’m moving. Last October I tried to do 10 days in a 20 degree down bag where nightly temps dropped to the high teens and low 20s. I froze my butt off the first night and double bagged with another 20 degree bag and was still cold every following night. The problem was that the ground was like ice and I was still losing body heat to the ground despite my insulated Klymit pad on top of another insulated air pad. Literally, only my top side was warm and I had to decide which side of me had to be a popsicle because down offers no insulation when compressed.

For next season, I got a 0 degree hybrid synthetic/down bag. That way I save some weight and bulk over full synthetic, but I get a little extra insulation on the bottom side. If that doesn’t work, I’m going full synthetic with the 0 degree Kifaru slick bag.


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stratofisher

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I’m 5’10” and 153 lbs. I have no insulation and can’t stay warm unless I’m moving. Last October I tried to do 10 days in a 20 degree down bag where nightly temps dropped to the high teens and low 20s. I froze my butt off the first night and double bagged with another 20 degree bag and was still cold every following night. The problem was that the ground was like ice and I was still losing body heat to the ground despite my insulated Klymit pad on top of another insulated air pad. Literally, only my top side was warm and I had to decide which side of me had to be a popsicle because down offers no insulation when compressed.

For next season, I got a 0 degree hybrid synthetic/down bag. That way I save some weight and bulk over full synthetic, but I get a little extra insulation on the bottom side. If that doesn’t work, I’m going full synthetic with the 0 degree Kifaru slick bag.


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You need a good ground pad with a 4.0 or higher rvalue. That will solve the issue. For cold temps a closed cell foam along with an xtherm type insulated pad will work best.
 

Ruskin

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I'm typically cold. I have taken one western hunt for Elk in CO high country every year for the last 5 years. I choose a 0' down quilt I run on an xtherm inside a superlight bivy sack in a tent. I have had nights at 40' that I slept without a tent just under the stars and kicked the quilt off. I have also seen it snow 6" on an archery CO hunt. And I have had temps in the low teens with whipping winds on a 1st season CO elk hunt...on that hunt I was happy with my 0' quilt and the whole set up. CO mountains can throw a range of weather at you (as i'm sure can WY, MT, etc). I'm usually packing and traveling to the hunting area well before any reliable forecast, so I go prepared for the worst scenario. If I lived close to my hunting area or had money for multiple bags, I might think different.

Also, how much are you willing to suffer? In my case, i don't want to sacrifice my sleep. But since you asked advice, I would look at the at the typical historic lows for the areas and times you will be there and then base your selection off that. Lots of weather sites, will give historic avg low temp.
 
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I use a zero degree down bag almost year-round in NM. It's a hundred dollar bag from Campmor, 8 years old and has lost a bit of loft, but I'd still estimate it a 15 degree bag or so. I sleep half-zipped or unzipped in the summer in the mountains if I need to. Usually I find that by morning I'm completely zipped up in it. I'm usually not in a tent, so the extra insulation is key.
I was just in the Pecos Wilderness this weekend in a rather new zero degree synthetic bag on top of a thermarest, about 1.25 inches thick. It got down into the low 20s. I was just warm enough in that zero degree bag, in a tent, sleeping in my clothes.
 
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Funny thing about sleeping bags in cold weather: the insulated (or not) mat beneath you has a huge bearing on the bag's performance and your comfort. Put the best bag on the wrong/cheap/poorly-insulated mat and it won't be as warm as you'd like. I've got a WM Sequoia and I'm 100% sure I'd be cold at 20F without my good Downmat beneath me. I would put the equation at 65:35 bag-to-mat importance.

Loft: It's equates to warmth. 2 inches of any insulation is still only 2 inches and won't compare favorably to 4" and so on. When a manufacturer says their bag is rated for 0F it had better have some serious loft. It's like boots rated to -40F...really? For who's feet? I recently saw an amazing ad from Massdrop offering a bag rated to 0F (or maybe even lower) which weighed something like 3-1/2 pounds and only cost $40. I could only shake my head and wonder how much quality materials, insulation and loft that bag held. How many people see a temp rating and think it actually is accurate? There are no people out there enforcing temp ratings, so it's up to the buyer to KNOW their bag will be good for their expected temps. And that's all about loft. I don't advise people to crawl into a 5" (overall) thick bag and think they'll be warm at 5F. My Sequoia is overfilled and lofts to 8" which will get me down to -5F. I've also got a WM Terralite which is a 5" thick bag rated to 25F. I have been in it at 25 degrees and know it's very warm...likely would be good to 20F or slightly less for me. Keep in mind I am sleeping on pads at least 2-3" (or more) thick and nicely insulated.
 
OP
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Thanks guys. I’m not sure I’m really any clearer on predicting what bag I need, lol! I’ve got a feeling I’m going to end up with a Slick bag AND a EE Quilt - if it’s going to get really cold, I’ll take both.

Am I correct in thinking that if it’s warm (say, 50’s-60’) you can just drape a bag over you or just lay on it (with it totally unzipped) and it’s not too bad?


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gelton

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Sleeping bag ratings are like moisture vapor transmission rates for clothing - depends on the manufacturer, or more importantly their testing facilities as there is no tried and true standard that is adhered by across the board.

I doubt you will see 50's and 60's at night during archery or spring bear. Depending on the altitude it will likely be 30-40 or even lower with temps climbing into the mid 70's during the day.

I started with a 15 degree Marmot Sawtooth that was more like a 30 degree bag. I now use a Western Mountaineering Kodiak zero degree and an xtherm.

As you alluded to in your post above you can just unzip it and drape it over you if its too warm but you cant do much if its too cold for your bag except add a liner really.

I would look for a manufacturer that you can trust their ratings with first and then decide on what rating you need. Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends temp ratings can be trusted, Kifaru has recently redone their ratings to be more in line with reality. I have hunted with guys that have the top tier Marmot bags (which are very similar to the kuiu bags if not the same OEM) and their temp ratings seem to be good as well.
 

pods8 (Rugged Stitching)

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You are realistically needing 2 bags for what you want or be overgunned in the warm season, a 0-10F and a 35-45 type bag. 1st rifle my vote is you need at least a 10F bag that is legit 10F (some manufacturer's are optimistic) and a good pad. I've hunted 1st rifle the last couple years at 11k backcountry and this year was cold down in the 10f range at night. I am using a western mountaineering versalite 10F on an xtherm pad and was comfortable. That bag is overkiil in the warmer weather so I bought a cheaper 34F synthetic bag to use in all the warmer stuff, there are some new synthetic insulations that are getting closer to down for weight/warmth and compressibility (down still rules the realm though), I got one of the mountain hardware lamina Z bags for ~$75 stacking sales. Point is that second bag doesn't have to break the bank while still remaining fairly light, spend the money on a good colder weather bag to get the performance at a light weight.
 

Gumbo

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I have 0 degree slick and wouldn't want to go any lighter for archery elk hunting. As you stated, you can open it up if it gets too warm, but you can't very easily make a 20 degree bag warmer. And for me, 0 degrees means I'm comfortable at 20 degrees. The extra weight of roughly 8 ounces is worth it to me. For what it is worth, a down bag of an equal degree rating feels warmer to me than synthetic, but the value of a synthetic is that I can climb in with damp clothes on, sleep outside or in a bivy with condensation, and beat it up with less worry. I use an X-therm or a 3/4 length prolite depending on what I'm doing in terms of shelter.
 
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I think it would benefit all of us if sleeping bag manufacturers gave the loft (total thickness of the bag measured in inches) for each bag they offer. They provide length, width, girth and temp ratings. But what assures us the temp rating is (close to) accurate? Loft is the only reliable measurement. That's one reason I can buy from WM with confidence. They provide the inches of loft in each bag, and their bags are known for accurate temp ratings. When WM says their 5" thick bag is rated at 25F that's a set of numbers we can trust.

I wish we had some type of reference to view and compare the loft from various bags. For instance I'd like to know the total loft in a 20F Kifaru Slick and a 0F Slick. Same with many other popular bags. For anyone interested, all you need to do is lay your bag out on the floor after giving it several good shakes to fluff it up. Measure from the floor to the (average) top of the bag in 2 or 3 places. I've done this on my good bags and they are very close to stated numbers.
 
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I used a $50 0 degree bag in less than 20 degree weather on a late season rifle over 10,000'. I was warm with a liner and a huge air mattress under me. I camped close to my truck on this hunt and brought a huge air mattress I blew up at home. By huge I mean it is one of those you use for a guest who spends the night at your house. It is like 14"-18" thick .

So I agree with the statement above that a ground pad is key.
You can have a high end bag, poor pad and see the effects. Then you can have a low end bag and a mattress Like I used and see the effects.

The key is a good bag, depending on how you sleep (hot or cold) and a good pad with insulation. I utilize a sleeping bag liner to add 15 degrees to my set up if its gonna fluctuate in temps.

I slept with this same cheap 0 degree bag , here in Utah in Feb, with a decent Lymatic vlux pad and a ground cloth (Tyvek). I was fine.
With this said, I am investing in a slick bag, as I want synthetic benefits, and a quality bag.
 

Crispyb

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You need a good ground pad with a 4.0 or higher rvalue. That will solve the issue. For cold temps a closed cell foam along with an xtherm type insulated pad will work best.

Is just the pad in the bivy or everything?

Also, what kind of bivy is it?
 

boom

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What should I be looking for - 15°-20° or something warmer like a 30°?

just double checking.. 30deg is not warmer..unless your talking about the ambient temp and not that bag anymore.

i did the archery hunt in ID..it was effen freezing. i used a 20 deg western mountaineering bag and it was downright chilly. that first "sit up" in the morning inside the bag would cause ice to crunch on the outside of my bag. it was kinda unpleasant and had me dreaming of a 0 deg bag.

i might be the only human on this site that HATED my slick bag. i had the first generation and it soured me so badly, i would never buy any of the new generations..i dont care what pixie dust they fill it with.

if i had to pick ONE bag..it would be a 10 deg sleeping bag from Western Mountaineering. great bags, great features..and if it's warmer you can use it like a blanket and stick a leg out to be the radiator. if it got colder, you could get buy wearing some more clothing..
 

AXEL

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just double checking.. 30deg is not warmer..unless your talking about the ambient temp and not that bag anymore.

i did the archery hunt in ID..it was effen freezing. i used a 20 deg western mountaineering bag and it was downright chilly. that first "sit up" in the morning inside the bag would cause ice to crunch on the outside of my bag. it was kinda unpleasant and had me dreaming of a 0 deg bag.

i might be the only human on this site that HATED my slick bag. i had the first generation and it soured me so badly, i would never buy any of the new generations..i dont care what pixie dust they fill it with.

if i had to pick ONE bag..it would be a 10 deg sleeping bag from Western Mountaineering. great bags, great features..and if it's warmer you can use it like a blanket and stick a leg out to be the radiator. if it got colder, you could get buy wearing some more clothing..

BINGO, winna, winna!!!!

Get a WM from 0*F to 10*F, use a good pad system and perhaps a light eVent bivy like the Borah. Done like dinner!
 
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