Wall tent & Spike setup

[tmwtrfwler]

First post after being referred here by a buddy.

Heading, assuming a successful draw, to Wyoming in October ‘18 for elk. Will be in wall tents and cots but need to pack daily for a spike camp in the event we don’t make it back to the site. So I’m in need of a new bag bc my ancient north face only packs down to the size of an ottoman. I need something that won’t cook me in the wall tent but won’t kill me under a tarp.

My research shows that temps can be anywhere from 50-20 roughly. That’s from the NOAA site.

I’m a pretty active sleeper so quilts are an appealing idea. Im thinking a 10 degree quilt from EE will suffice and specifically I like the versatility of the conundrum.

Im also intrigued by the feathered friends raven 10 as it has a wider shoulder area. A mummy is what I’m used to so familiarity is nice.

So the big questions are:
1) do I need a 10 degree bag or can I make a 20 work?
2) do I need a zero degree bag?

 

[AK Troutbum]

I would think that a 10 would work just fine, assuming that you don't have some kind of a freak storm dropping temps to sub 0. I use a 10 EE for most of my fall hunts and although I've never used it in temps down to 10*, I have used it down into the teens without any problems. I'll also supplement clothing, ie., puffy pants/jacket on occasion since I'm carrying them anyway, and I always wear some kind of beanie (keeping the ol' melon warm is essential).

 

[Ross]

IMO best to have too much warmth than not enough. Bag ratings are a good indication of warmth as an avg and each of us is different on how a given bag will provide enough warmth especially when sleeping on ground with pad. I would error on the side of a warmer bag or quilt rating as you never know what Mother Nature will throw your way. I’ve been under bagged before never again

 

[tmwtrfwler]

So go zero degree?

The data doesn’t lie but I thought it would get colder in Wyoming in mid October than it shows.

 

[durangobrad]

So your going to be packing around a spike camp all the time "just in case you dont make it back to camp that day?" I only carry my spike camp when I KNOW im not going to make it back. I do carry some emergency items that would help me survive in the event I didnt make it back. Carrying the weight of a spike camp around all day will not help your hunting performance, especially altitude and in the mountains.

 

[tmwtrfwler]

So your going to be packing around a spike camp all the time "just in case you dont make it back to camp that day?" I only carry my spike camp when I KNOW im not going to make it back. I do carry some emergency items that would help me survive in the event I didnt make it back. Carrying the weight of a spike camp around all day will not help your hunting performance, especially altitude and in the mountains.

Tarp, bag, pad, and emergency items. That’s all. Shouldn’t have said a spike camp per say. But enough where we aren’t screwed.

 

[Ross]

I chose a zero degree bag for my October hunts. Some years high 60s, most years 40ish, lows can range from zero one year on 10/8 to an avg in the twenties. Then you add in rain very often. With my zero I am covered for all bases and will never have another night like I did Durango brings up a good pt about packing around a spike camp. That is a lot of extra wt in elk country.

 

[durangobrad]

Tarp, bag, pad, and emergency items. That’s all. Shouldn’t have said a spike camp per say. But enough where we aren’t screwed.

I still would never carry all that around all day with me. October the days are getting shorter, I cant see any reason other than emergency that you wouldnt make it back to camp. Lighter, stronger, faster.

 

[Owenst7]

If the lowest temp you'll see is 20F, you need about 5.5" of insulation on top of you. If you might have drafts, you'll probably want some clothing/base layer setup that will handle that temp for a short duration without getting cold (think a quick Sprint to go pee at night).

You probably want an R value around 4 (or higher) underneath you.

If you're wanting to plan for colder, go for around 6-7" of insulation to get to around 0F. Probably bump your R value of your pad to 5.5-6+ too.

If you get a continuous baffle bag, you can just shake feathers under you to sleep cooler. They won't do much to keep you warm when you're laying on them. Quilts are nice, but I sleep in a tarp when it's below freezing and prefer a mummy due to the drafts. It can get pretty breezy in a tarp if you're pitching it to control humidity.

A high fill power bag will be around 2 lbs for ~30F and ~2.5-3 lbs for 0F. I just use a 0F bag and lay on the feathers when it's warm. The areas I backpack can drop a lot of degrees during a day unexpectedly, and I can't afford more bags (already have like 5 lol).

 

[danarnold]

So go zero degree?

The data doesn’t lie but I thought it would get colder in Wyoming in mid October than it shows.

wish I knew where to get accurate weather data for the mountain, Ha

I've been under insulated also...makes for a long night

 

[tmwtrfwler]

wish I knew where to get accurate weather data for the mountain, Ha

I've been under insulated also...makes for a long night

Well it’s not perfectly accurate but it’s the closest weather station

 

[unclericco]

I've put alot of miles on in the Wyoming mountains in October. I don't think you're going to need anything more than a 0 degree bag. Also agree with the poster who said not to carry too much gear around with you all day.

 

[rbljack]

I have gone back and forth with this (carrying the spike gear with ya). This year I was carrying a supertarp, annex, and Tyvek around with me every time I went hiking in, even though they were only day hunts for the same reasons you discuss. As a just in case, or a rainstorm comes in, or you end up out there overnight. I also carried the cook kit so I could get a warm lunch, make some soup or have some hot tea when the temps were cold. Its a tough call. The bag sure does get heavy as the miles tick off. As I sit here typing it, I tell myself that I should plan to carry it again in 2018. But its funny how the shoulders and legs start talking back during the hunt, and stuff starts getting purged from the pack for day hunting...LOL. First the stove comes out, then the supertarp kit....then I start debating whether the spotter and tripod are necessary....because I have been in the "trees" all day and didn't hit the glassing locations...you get the idea. So I'm no help in providing an answer, just indicating that you are not alone in the contemplation department.

Regarding the bag...I think zero degree of 15 degree bag is about right if temps are getting down in the 20's or slightly less for me so far. I'm a somewhat cold sleeper, and did get cold when the temps really dropped. I hate mummy bags, and its hard to stay comfortable at times. I also have to resist the urge to bury my face down into the bag because then I create condensation problems.

 

[tmwtrfwler]

Regarding the bag...I think zero degree of 15 degree bag is about right if temps are getting down in the 20's or slightly less for me so far. I'm a somewhat cold sleeper, and did get cold when the temps really dropped. I hate mummy bags, and its hard to stay comfortable at times. I also have to resist the urge to bury my face down into the bag because then I create condensation problems.

Do you use the mummy or quilt?

 

[Brendan]

Any Elk hunting experience, or your first trip?

I'd Leave the bag, pad at camp for that scenario. Bring a small cuben emergency tarp (one for the group), sitting pad, your puffy, rain gear, long underwear, dry socks, glove and hat. Then have a small fire starting kit plus some extra snacks.

 

[rayporter]

the last weather report you get before you hit the high country is priceless. last years weather is way behind the curve.

 

[mtnrunner260]

I assume you are driving out west?
I'd suggest having the most comfortable base camp set up you can. Cot, big thick pad, canvas and fleece bag, pillow etc.
Then don't be married to your "spike/emergency " camp. If you're truly covering enough miles away from base camp to need it I think you're going to find the additional weight detrimental unless you're in Cam Hanes shape.

 

[tmwtrfwler]

First time heading out for elk.

The experienced voices here are leading me to leave the bag at camp and bring what you’re talking about. No differnent than what I’d take on a hike here in Va. emergency supplies only and change of clothes.

Thanks for all the advice. Will be asking more questions as they come up.

 

[tmwtrfwler]

This hunt is a guided one so the base camp is all covered by the guide. Certainly we will help setup but he’ll have everything. We just bring bags, pads, and our hunting gear.

 

[mtnrunner260]

Have you talked to the guide about what he expects you to be carrying? If there is a possibility of spiking out you should still upgrade to a new bag/quilt and anyways after you will be addicted and want to come back out so it will be one less thing to worry about next year!