Scopes: Lightweight, Ultralight, or "Stupid Light"

mcseal2

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I'd personally go with the VX3 2.5-8x. I have an older VXIII version on a 308 and it is a great fit. The duplex is finer than the one in the VX-2 2-7x33 I have and I like that.
 

luke moffat

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Thanks for the insight guys. Sounds like the majority would say 2-7 or 2.5-8 is the way to go. And I agree, any weight savings with a fixed power would be small, I guess part of my attraction to that is just the simplicity of no adjustments, constant eye relief, and more foolproof field use. I have embarrassingly missed stuff (targets, not animals) by having a second focal plane on the wrong power before.

Consensus also seems to be durability and quality is more than adequate on variables these days. I haven't used a variable on a hunting rifle since I was a kid, and it was very cheap. Zero wandered as you changed the power setting. The only variables I have used as an adult have been S&B scopes and Vortex Razors, can't afford anything near that quality. Those were issued items.

Anything else I should be considering?

Any other fixed 4x fans out there that feel there is no disadvantage in using that type of scope? Or any other practical advantages to it over a variable?

I gotta ask how did you miss a shot because you were on the wrong power setting? Were you using a BDC reticle and didn't have it on max?

For the ranges you are talking about a (300 yards with a .308 win) is exactly what I used for the first 10-15 years of hunting. No need for anything but a standard duplex reticle for that. 2.5" high at 100 yards is not even 6" low at 300 with at 165 grainer at 2750 fps. Everything is just point of aim.

Nothing says you can't just leave a 2-7 at 4X all the time. Never had a rifle zoom "walk" on me through being carried. I always carry my riflescopes at the lowest power and only turn them up if shooting if I have the time to turn them up once setup for the shot. IMO variables only give you options. You can use that option if you want and have more FOV which I like for up close bear hunting, but also crank it up for a 300 yard shot I am setup prone and waiting for the thing to turn broadside. Like I said though you can leave it on 4x and just forget about the variable except when at the range to work up loads.

A .308 win isn't exactly a punishing cartridge and have yet to see a scope fail on one (granted I am not shooting thousands of rounds a year) just carried hunting a lot more than going to the range. I wouldn't worry about the durability of any of them personally.
 
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I like the Leupold 2.5-8x36 with M1 turrets on my 'light' precision 308 rifle. Aluminum TPS rings, on a 40 moa Nightforce rail. I shoot it to 1000+ no problem. Dial it down it's fine in the woods.

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The magnification hasn't been a problem for precise shooting. Some 100 yard targets,

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Shane
 

GKPrice

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in the last couple of seasons I switched over from FX3 6x42 to VX3 3.5 x 10 (don't really know why, just got a wild hair) I haven't regretted it or shouted AH HA from any roof tops either - 6x never held me back in the timber, I've made plenty of "right in front of me" shots and also killed a couple of animals a bit beyond 500, again never missed a beat - I'd be a happy guy to have a stable (well, a couple of stalls anyway) of 6x's - VX3's get carried on 3.5 or 10 as I can't see ANY reason to do otherwise IME
 

EastMT

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for what ?

First time wouldn't hold zero on a 300 mag when brand new. Had bought a new rifle, chased bullet holes all over thinking it was the rifle. Tried every bullet and powder available. Finally changed scopes, shot great. Sent in, replaced a lot of technical stuff I can't recall the names of. Got back, few rounds and same issue. Sent back in and replaced more internal parts. Seems to be ok but he doesn't trust it and is considering selling.

This doesn't include that the parallax adjustment was glued in placed when he received it. They said it was due to to much glue at installation.

I hope their quality is not dropping, I have used vx2 3-9 as far back as I can remember, zero failures.
 

GKPrice

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First time wouldn't hold zero on a 300 mag when brand new. Had bought a new rifle, chased bullet holes all over thinking it was the rifle. Tried every bullet and powder available. Finally changed scopes, shot great. Sent in, replaced a lot of technical stuff I can't recall the names of. Got back, few rounds and same issue. Sent back in and replaced more internal parts. Seems to be ok but he doesn't trust it and is considering selling.

This doesn't include that the parallax adjustment was glued in placed when he received it. They said it was due to to much glue at installation.

I hope their quality is not dropping, I have used vx2 3-9 as far back as I can remember, zero failures.

it seems that more and more lately they've been having these sort of issues but they "seem" to be sporadic - I HAVE had several new ones stick when first adjustments were attempted then seemed to "break loose" and worked fine but that's still unnerving - Leupold is just coming out with some new long range versions of the VX6 line (and a new VX5 line I think) but MY advice would be to get the stuff that's being used right now straightened out first, or at least simultaneously - Leupold is no "newbie" and their plant is high tech so it would seem it's QC but time will tell I guess - I'm gonna stick with the VX3's because I don't dial ..... and they get set on 3.5 or 10 only, pretty straight forward simple
 
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Dave0317

Dave0317

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Yes Luke. Older Leupold Mark 4 with second focal plane mil dot reticle. MOA turrets, to help confuse things further. Had the experience at least once or twice with that scope at different training events.
Powered down for multiple close targets and left it at like 7 or 8x for some longer shots using a Mil hold. Doesn't work of course. Of course training and knowing your equipment could solve that. But so can a Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA turret/reticle along with first focal plane optics.

So I was just thinking, I'd hate to have the same brain fart looking at an Elk at 400 yards, ...lining up the 400 yard hash mark, then seeing the power is on 5 when the reticle is calibrated at 7x only.

Just one of those things I'd like to simplify and eliminate.
 

Fireguy

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I like your style!!! I have a model 7 in 308 that wears a 3-9X33 ultralight Leupold as well as a 18" barrel 325 WSM Browning TI I gave to my dad to use now that goes 5.8 pounds scoped with a 2-7X28 ultralight leupold.



I used the 2-7X28 on the browning TI to kill sheep and goats both just beyond 250 yards with it. Also shot a grizzly bear at 330 yards with it. I don't find 7X to be limting giving what you are wanting to do.

Heres the video of that grizzly hunt:
[video=vimeo;68429410]https://vimeo.com/68429410[/video]
Hiking Trip/Grizz Hunt on Vimeo

I also killed sheep, goats, grizzly bear, black bear, moose, caribou, and deer with a couple Kimber 308s, and the Model 7 .308 with both the 3-9X33 ultralight and 3-9X40 VX-2.

All of them work. Obviously the 3-9X40 is 33% heavier that the 2-7X28 but I haven't found either limiting by daylight and small objectives, but I primarily hunt open country and not thick timber so maybe thats why.

My currently uber light rifle wears a 2-7X28 Leupold ultralight as well. For the distances you speicify I think it'll work just fine for ya if you are trying to keep weight to a minimum and no really interest shooting beyond 400 yards.

FDCADD4C-C7E8-45DA-AE6B-2A9F8AF4B2FE_zpsmchlx9t8.jpg
[/URL]

Luke,

I know you put your rifles to work a lot harder than most, have you ever had any issues with your Leupolds? I'm putting together a super lightweight rifle too and have been thinking about light scope.
 

luke moffat

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Yes Luke. Older Leupold Mark 4 with second focal plane mil dot reticle. MOA turrets, to help confuse things further. Had the experience at least once or twice with that scope at different training events.
Powered down for multiple close targets and left it at like 7 or 8x for some longer shots using a Mil hold. Doesn't work of course. Of course training and knowing your equipment could solve that. But so can a Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA turret/reticle along with first focal plane optics.

So I was just thinking, I'd hate to have the same brain fart looking at an Elk at 400 yards, ...lining up the 400 yard hash mark, then seeing the power is on 5 when the reticle is calibrated at 7x only.

Just one of those things I'd like to simplify and eliminate.

I don't use a BDC style reticle and for ranges to 300 yards simply knowing how far to hold over at 300 yards has worked well. Of course for shots beyond 250 yards I usually crank to max power anywayas.

If you ware wanting first focal plane fix or variable both of those are going to require likely around a 20 oz scope. Or just a fixed 6x36 with some LRD could work as well and thats the scope I have on my wife's .308 win now. Seems like a good scope for just under 10 oz thus far and is simple. But I would call Leupold custom shop to see what MOA dots are at on the 6X36 and then figure out how those drops corresponds to your load you are shooting.
 
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luke moffat

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Luke,

I know you put your rifles to work a lot harder than most, have you ever had any issues with your Leupolds? I'm putting together a super lightweight rifle too and have been thinking about light scope.

Keep in mind my rifles are carried A LOT more than shot. In a given year my ultralights once I have a load worked up with them might see 50-75 shots a year on them.
 

GKPrice

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Keep in mind my rifles are carried A LOT more than shot. In a given year my ultralights once I have a load worked up with them might see 50-75 shots a year on them.

Luke's experience has to be by far the common theme for hunters - there are guys (like Formidilosus for instance) who get to witness a whole lot more chances for stuff like optics to screw up - I spend a lot of time at the range but I'm also always messing with scopes (changing power settings mid group and such) and other than the aforementioned sticky adjustments in new scopes I've not experienced any faults with Leupolds but I have with Minox when I tried a couple due to "great" price opportunities but I quickly enough was back to Leupold - both son's got Swarovski 4 x 12 x 50's and other than an ever so slight finite clarity advantage at 300 yard targets I found no real advantage or disadvantage to them (except for $$) - OF COURSE, if I take a spill or a gun/scope gets a rap I'm dubious until it gets checked for zero retention but that's just common sense and no scope I can imagine would ever be immuned to that IME - everyone has a favorite or preference, ie; Chev / Dodge / Ford, etc ... but very few are standouts and when they float to the top it's usually for a very specific reason - Leupold 6x scopes are one of those standouts for obvious reasons IMO
 
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I was waiting for someone to bring up Swaro-- Thoughts on the Z3--3-9x36 at around 12oz? It's barely an ounce over Leupold in the same power range but better glass.
 

kcm2

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One year, I hunted with a 2x7x28 UL Leupold on my 270. At first light, there were elk in a field, but I could not see my crosshairs. The fellow with me, shooting an old Springfield 30-06 with a $39 Bushnell 3-9 scope, could see his crosshairs. So, I'd start at the 2.5x8x36, as my floor, and mostly go 3x90x40. Elk are hard to find. When I find one, I want to be able to shoot at it.
 

GKPrice

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One year, I hunted with a 2x7x28 UL Leupold on my 270. At first light, there were elk in a field, but I could not see my crosshairs. The fellow with me, shooting an old Springfield 30-06 with a $39 Bushnell 3-9 scope, could see his crosshairs. So, I'd start at the 2.5x8x36, as my floor, and mostly go 3x90x40. Elk are hard to find. When I find one, I want to be able to shoot at it.

that scope failing was likely improper focus adjustment
 

philos

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I am quite confident in the Leupold 2.5 x 8 as an all around great scope and light enough to sit atop a lightweight mountain rifle.
I have one on a Model 7 in 7mm-08, Browning A Bolt in 270 WSM and a Kimber Montana 338 WM. I might be wrong but I believe the 36mm objective helps a bit over the 27mm or even 32mm-perhaps not much but I believe it is a bit better at low light. Also I like the opportunity to power up to 8 in some situations but I keep in at 2.5 most of the time. I've used the 8 power enough times that I personally would miss not having the ability to power up on occasion. Those with better eyesight might not feel the same way.

There are lighter options available. I am biased as I have had long term great experience with the 2.5 x 8. I cannot imagine a better combination of durability and flexibility than the 2.5 x 8
 

ATX762

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The low power is something that you might wish you had if you have a grizz issue or if you end up going into the willows to run down an animal.

I've used VX-3's in 2.5-8 and 1.75-6 for years now, both are great, but the 1.75-6 has a much bigger FOV for faster close up shooting. The VX3 glass is definitely better than the VX-2 glass. To me it's very noticeable but I'm spoiled. I own a lot of higher end glass, scopes costing 7-8 times what the VX3 does, but the VX-3 hits the weight/reliability/glass quality sweet spot, even leaving price out of it. Plenty of times I've taken off a way more expensive scope and stuck a VX-3 on a rifle just because they are usually 1/2 pound lighter or more than the competition (including the VX-6's).

I shoot to 1000 yards all the time with a 10x. I shoot to 600 yards all the time with a 6X. Whether you like a 6x top end or 8X top end is sort of preference but again up close that lower magnification wider FOV of the 1.75 is noticeable if you have to shoot quick.
 
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Dave0317

Dave0317

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Made a decision and got a scope. Contrary to much of the advice here, I went with a Leupold 4x. I realized the truth is, this rifle will largely be used in the east. If I move out west, or get to a point where more of my hunting happens there, I'll need an excuse to buy a new rifle and scope anyway. So I went with what I felt is a good reliable and maybe even ideal hunting scope for the eastern deer hunter. Have to say I felt pretty inspired to lean towards a fixed power scope by this article too: RIFLES: Fixed Power Only?


Rifle is a Remington Model Seven, .308, factory stock, Tac Grey Cerakote done by Five Guns in Mississippi.

View attachment 54618

I want to weigh the setup, but don't have a scale at the moment. I'm guessing maybe seven pounds. I went with Leupold PRW rings, which may not be the lightest, but I've found them to be very durable on other rifles. Sling is a Langlois-Rhodesian from The Wilderness. Allows looping up as fast as a hasty, but with almost as much stability as a target style cuff. Very first three shots out of the rifle, from a looped up sitting position at 100 yards...View attachment 54619
Just a hair over an inch, maybe and not far from the bull. That's with Federal GMM. I'll be doing some experiments with different ammo and maybe do a full review in another thread. I'll let you know how the scope works out after I get some hunting in this fall.

Edit to add: Yes, I was absolutely shocked when that group landed where it did. No boresighting, no adjustments. Wasn't even sure the first shots would be on paper. Somehow everything lined up that close, and I take that as an omen that this rifle and I will have some great hunts.
 
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swisski

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5998f9a1749f68248a7d57b8a33fe43b.jpg


Model 7 308 SS, HS Precision stock, 4 rounds in the magazine. Less than $1000 total. Could get lighter but shoots great. I shot 150 gr for years because I wanted a little extra speed, got a free box of 180 Partitions and shot them just so I could reload

Not to hijack this thread, but how do you like that HS stock on your model 7? Was that just a straight drop in, or did you have to do some work?

I have a model 7 in 7mm-08 that is all factory. Looking at putting a lighter/better stock on, and one of these lightweight scopes.
 

EastMT

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I really like it, it dropped right in, I thought about bedding it but it shot so good that i just left it alone. I don't know that it's much lighter, but a whole lot better and not crazy expensive.


"If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it."
 
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