Keeping my bird dog safe from snakes in TX

[FuddRucker]

Recently moved to Texas. Looking to get into some quail with my 3 y/o GWP. I haven't spent much time in snake country, so basically have no clue on how much I should worry about them and what reasonable precautions are for the dog and myself besides "watch where you're walking." She's curious, got high drive and has never seen a snake before. Seems like a recipe for a bad time, so I just wanna be responsible and not set her up for a bite to the nose.

Here's what I'm thinking so far:

- get the pup rattler "vaccine"
- get the pup snake trained.
- get myself some basic snake boots from academy or snake gaiters (something like this)

Does anyone have recommendations for reputable trainers or clubs that do this around DFW? Used to belong to NAVHDA and I'm not sure they'd run something like that though I know regional chapters are different.

Are they less of a worry during colder months? Is there anything I'm missing?

 

[406flyfish]

What you listed are all the precautions you can take. The vaccine isn’t proven and is fairly subjective. I know of several Vets who practice in snake country that don’t carry it and don’t recommend it.

To my knowledge, snake breaking is all the same. Snake breaking should help with a curious dog. On the other hand, I’ve seen German breeds with such high prey drive that they will attack every Snake/porcupine even after avoidance training. Those dogs usually don’t last long..

I went through my NAVHDA chapter for one of my dogs and a local breeders for the other. A few calls to a couple of local breeders should get you pointed in the right directions.

They are more lethargic during the cooler months, but can still strike.

My friend’s dog just got bite by a rattler on opening day of Pheasant season and it was around 60 degrees. Didn’t have the vaccine, but looks like he’ll make a full recovery. Be prepared to spend $1k plus if your dog is bite, it’s not a cheap treatment for the anti-venom, fluids, antibiotics and possibly an overnight stay at the Vet.

I know of dogs who’ve had avoidance training and the vaccine and still died. It’s just the risk of hunting in snake country.

 

[eamyrick]

I did vaccine for my British Lab first two years and now that he is 70lbs I skip it after discussion with the vet. Whether or not it’s effective is subjective. It worries me but just part of being a dog. We hunt in blue quail country and have run across rattlers there.

 

[FuddRucker]

What you listed are all the precautions you can take. The vaccine isn’t proven and is fairly subjective. I know of several Vets who practice in snake country that don’t carry it and don’t recommend it.

To my knowledge, snake breaking is all the same. Snake breaking should help with a curious dog. On the other hand, I’ve seen German breeds with such high prey drive that they will attack every Snake/porcupine even after avoidance training. Those dogs usually don’t last long..

I went through my NAVHDA chapter for one of my dogs and a local breeders for the other. A few calls to a couple of local breeders should get you pointed in the right directions.

They are more lethargic during the cooler months, but can still strike.

My friend’s dog just got bite by a rattler on opening day of Pheasant season and it was around 60 degrees. Didn’t have the vaccine, but looks like he’ll make a full recovery. Be prepared to spend $1k plus if your dog is bite, it’s not a cheap treatment for the anti-venom, fluids, antibiotics and possibly an overnight stay at the Vet.

I know of dogs who’ve had avoidance training and the vaccine and still died. It’s just the risk of hunting in snake country.

Thanks for your reply. The German drive is what I'm worried about. I'll definitely reach out to some breeders close to us and see what's available. Vet visits are never cheap. Hopefully the snake training works for her, but you're right that I'll just have to come to terms with the risk when hunting down here.

 

[FuddRucker]

I did vaccine for my British Lab first two years and now that he is 70lbs I skip it after discussion with the vet. Whether or not it’s effective is subjective. It worries me but just part of being a dog. We hunt in blue quail country and have run across rattlers there.

That's good to know. Is this just because at that size he's got a better shot at surviving the amount of venom in an average bite? My dog is 60-65 lbs. Either way, finding a good vet to talk to about it is on my agenda.

 

[Little Joe]

In Texas snakes are just a fact of life. Some areas are worse than others. What I would do in addition to snake training is talk with my local veterinarian. My vet knew the areas where most of the snake bites occurred. In my case there were two areas with a high frequency of snake bites. I would avoid those areas. Good information also comes from other dog handlers or members of leases. They will tell you the areas known for snakes. Lastly, learn a little about snake habitat. If the area looks like prime rattlesnake habitat avoid it.

 

[FuddRucker]

In Texas snakes are just a fact of life. Some areas are worse than others. What I would do in addition to snake training is talk with my local veterinarian. My vet knew the areas where most of the snake bites occurred. In my case there were two areas with a high frequency of snake bites. I would avoid those areas. Good information also comes from other dog handlers or members of leases. They will tell you the areas known for snakes. Lastly, learn a little about snake habitat. If the area looks like prime rattlesnake habitat avoid it.

Great advice, thanks!

 

[30338]

Had my older draht snake trained. I think it made him hate them more. I try not to hunt over 50 degrees. But if either died from a snake bit, I'm pretty sure the snake will die in the process lol.

 

[FuddRucker]

Had my older draht snake trained. I think it made him hate them more. I try not to hunt over 50 degrees. But if either died from a snake bit, I'm pretty sure the snake will die in the process lol.

Great dogs lol

 

[pcrossett]

I would also suggest taking the precaution of knowing where the nearest vet office/emergency clinic is and confirming they do have anti-venom available on the off chance a bite does occur.

My wife is a veterinarian so I am paraphrasing this but I believe her thought process with the vaccine was that it would decrease the amount of reaction from the bite so it would ideally give you more time to get to a clinic for the anti-venom. Emphasis on the paraphrasing as she has not had to deal with a snake bit dog since we moved from Texas so the subject has not come up in a while.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

Snake break training is a must if you hunt in known snake hangout areas. I had one if my GSP's that had a natural aversion to rattle snakes, it he smelled or heard them he would back off and not get close. I never took him to snake break training. All my other GSP's weren't as smart so they all had to put up with the classes.

 

[Mosby]

Where a dog gets bit will often determine the dogs chances for survival after a snake bit. Some areas are a lot worse than others. When I lived in Texas we saw a lot of snakes on our lease. I wouldn't run a dog in TX without snake avoidance training and I would get the snake vaccine. I get it for all my dogs. It's cheap.

 

[Dos Perros]

I know folks who have covered a lot of dog*miles in Texas, and I've not aware of any snake bites.

I do know of some that have tangled with porcupines. One hit by a vehicle. One that was seriously cut and almost bled out. And one that was impaled on a mesquite tree and died instantly.

I think you're on the right path getting some snake avoidance training, that's probably the best thing you can do. But IMO the attention paid to the risk of snakes is not in line with the actual risk...most likely something else is going to get your dog.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

Most people think the snake vaccine is worthless. I've got a buddy that used to run a bunch of hog dogs often and his dogs "got bit all the time" from what he told me, no difference in reaction when he tried using the vaccine. The one tip he did give me was to remove the collar, he said the only dogs he's seen die from a bite were because the head and neck swelled up so much they'd suffocate. I left mine at the vet overnight, he told me that and I called and sure enough the vet hadn't removed the collar so I asked them to do so.

While we're hunting we're attentive and can call them off a snake, but when one sneaks up behind momma while she's grilling lunch at camp the dogs will do their thing. I wish I would've got the avoidance training for my old girl, $2k vet bill.

Normal face and Snakemaster 2000 face 15 minutes post-bite still in the boat headed to town.

 

[FuddRucker]

Most people think the snake vaccine is worthless. I've got a buddy that used to run a bunch of hog dogs often and his dogs "got bit all the time" from what he told me, no difference in reaction when he tried using the vaccine. The one tip he did give me was to remove the collar, he said the only dogs he's seen die from a bite were because the head and neck swelled up so much they'd suffocate. I left mine at the vet overnight, he told me that and I called and sure enough the vet hadn't removed the collar so I asked them to do so.

While we're hunting we're attentive and can call them off a snake, but when one sneaks up behind momma while she's grilling lunch at camp the dogs will do their thing. I wish I would've got the avoidance training for my old girl, $2k vet bill.

Normal face and Snakemaster 2000 face 15 minutes post-bite still in the boat headed to town.

Poor girl.

That makes sense to remove the collar for the swelling.

 

[FuddRucker]

Thanks everyone. We're working on finding a place to get snake training and will be talking to a vet soon. Seems like the all "hunting" vets where I'm located have retired, so we'll probably end up with the recommended local vet. In any case, might also see if we can link into the regional navhda to talk to some other handlers.

 

[ElPollo]

Snake breaking is the best single thing you can do. I use the vaccine, but I understand that it only makes the reaction a bit less severe. If your dog gets bit in a major artery or vein, you still may not be able to do much for them. But that is pretty rare.

I also carry Benadryl in my dog first aid kit. Giving them this right after a bite can reduce swelling and prevent asphyxiation due to swelling if they are bit in the head or neck. I’ve known several people who’ve been able to resolve bites on their dogs only with Benadryl, but still recommend getting a dog that’s been bitten to a vet to get checked out.

But I’ve done the snake training multiple times with my dog and he wants nothing to do with rattlers. It’s apparent that they smell totally different too. Dogs will often point rattlesnakes (and porcupines), but they will run right over a gopher snake or a hog nose.

 

[DuckDogDr]

Rattlesnake bites are the worst of all the species (second only to a coral snake - completely different type of venom). Those bites genuinely scare me as an owner and as a E-vet, I know that poor dog is in for a rough night.

Most E-clinics are going to carry antivenin.. just be prepared if it’s a bad rattlesnake bite be prepared for 5-6 vials of antivenin at $600 + a pop (that’s just the antivenin)… if the ER vet says you need it they probably aren’t B.S.ing you just FYI. Ive been practicing for 12 years I’ve NEVER had a rattlesnake bite require less than 2 vials (confirmed rattlesnake)

Copperheads are more of a painful annoyance than anything but I have seen some of them really be problematic on dogs . 99% are going to be fine with basic treatment in a copperhead the 1% that has problems .. man do they ever.
Water moccasins are somewhere in the middle.

Snake avoidance on my lab.

My previous lab was tired after a day of hunting and accidentally laid down on a copperhead … bit her 3x before she could move ..she was smart enough the next time she even caught wind of a snake she would take a 20 yard circle around … she didn’t want to repeat any part of that and in hindsight was kind of funny; though not at the time.

Planning on doing on my Chessie .. but I’m worried as one of the other posters mentioned it’s just going to piss him off


Here is the most recent one I treated (August of last year) Dog was bit on the tongue. Owner would only let me give 2 vials of antivenin even though bloodwork was still terribly abnormal and tongue continued to swell and necrosis.. she thought I was out to price gouge her… ultimately dog had to be intubated and on oxygen before she finally got the hint.. couldn’t get the swelling under control with the 2 vials.

Dog wound up passing .. venom destroyed all of the Red Blood Cells and it was too late before she would agree to anything else… by then she was telling me to do everything I could but this was 12 hours later at this point

 

[yfarm]

Generally will see snake clinics in August before dove season. There is a gsp facebook group in Tx, will have posts in the summer where clinics are being held. Ambient temps are interesting, hunted with a guide in west Tx that wouldn’t hunt his dogs until temps were below 70. Literature says rattlesnakes optimal temps are around 77. Hunted 2 years ago with a guide from Riviera, hunts the King and Yturria ranches. Wears snake boots and a strap on leather shield from the topof the boot to mid thigh. Week before I hunted he was struck above the knee on a day it was 50. Take your chances, odds are you and your dog will be fine. Friend killed a rattlesnake this week on his ranch se of San Antonio, first one he or I have seen in 5 years. There is unverified information that rattlesnakes aren’t rattling here because of the hogs. April is the peak month for bites in Texas.

 

[100 others]

South and West Texas are no joke for rattlers. I did a nilgai hunt down south and saw 3-4 a day in November. I didn’t have snake gaiters so I stuck to the dirt roads during the day and used white light at night after a few days of close calls. They were probably too cold to want to strike most of the morning but they could have gotten me a few times. And not a single one rattled, I even messed with one to test the theory and it just scurried away without a peep. You end up missing a lot when your attention is divided between picking apart the trees for animals and the ground for snakes. Snakes like the same cover that quail do, so wear gaiters and get the dogs trained up for snake avoidance!