Maximizing the structural integrity of an arrow

Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Messages
93
So I will throw my 2 cents in here, as someone who tests a lot of products and as someone who now owns an archery shop. as a point of clarification my shop is not a full retail shop like most we are a tuning arrow building business.
There are many factors to consider when we talk about arrows. Is the spine correct, how was the arrow built (factory, carbon type and how it was layered), how was the arrow put together at the shop?home, what is the wall thickness, what components are being used and on and on.

One thing I think gets over looked a lot is looking at your whole arrow set up (with broadhead) as a delivery system, one weak spot in the system and it can (i didn't say will) all go to crap so to speak.

You want a system that when it is shot can have as much energy as possible transferred from the bow to the arrow, that starts with how the arrow comes off the string, is it in the best possible way so that as little correction as possible needs to happen. any correction that needs to happen robs energy from the arrow. so if the arrow is not coming off straight the vanes have to correct it you just lost energy.
we want the arrow to carry as much energy as possible so that energy can be used once the arrow hits the animals to drive it (push it) through the animal.
Many things can rob energy and need to be considered. Are the blades of the broadhead bending or holding, is the arrow flexing to much, is the arrow breaking. Any of those will rob energy and thus rob penetration. This is where structural integrity of the delivery system as a whole is important! This is where Weak components really come into play! Thin walled arrows or brittle arrows are prone to more problems. The same goes for weak thin broadheads and even crappy nocks can cause problems. When the arrow hits the animal we want that stored energy (as much as possible) to drive/push the arrow through what ever it contacts and stay on a straight course.

the best way to figure out what is best for your setup is to test different things and be critical of your setup. pick it apart, whats weak or has the highest potential to fail and what out there can make it better. That's different for everyone, for me I have always figured if I can spend money on a new bow and new camo and packs and the other crap I spend money on, I sure the hell better be willing to spend some money on the thing that actually kills the animals.

so below is how I personally set my stuff up. I am not trying to tell anyone else how to set theirs up but maybe this will show you another way to set it up.

For my personal setup and some of my customers (not everyone wants to go this deep) we start with figuring out roughly what arrow weight and FOC they want. picking the right arrow and components to get there or as close as possible. building a couple of those arrows and then tuning the bow, if the bow paper tunes well, we will then bare-shaft tune the bow. once we are satisfied with the all of that we then build the rest of the arrows which includes spinning and cutting from both ends if needed, nock tuning and then clocking the arrows. once clocked we fletch with a right or left helical based on the natural spin of the arrow coming off the bow. this allows for as much energy as possible to be retained by the delivery system (arrow) as possible.

My personal setup is an Easton Axis 260 with 50 grain brass hit insert, a 16 grain footer (1.5" long) a 150 grain head, fire nock and 3 blazer vanes with a left helical. total arrow weight is 606 grains, I have yet to have one of these arrows brake, and have shot rebar, a rock, bone and a bull with a frontal shot where the arrow went in cut 3 ribs and then logged in the pelvis plus several deer and wolf. I am by no means saying they wont brake, but I have not had an issue with one yet.

I hope this can help someone in some way
 

Trial153

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Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
8,187
Location
NY
So I will throw my 2 cents in here, as someone who tests a lot of products and as someone who now owns an archery shop. as a point of clarification my shop is not a full retail shop like most we are a tuning arrow building business.
There are many factors to consider when we talk about arrows. Is the spine correct, how was the arrow built (factory, carbon type and how it was layered), how was the arrow put together at the shop?home, what is the wall thickness, what components are being used and on and on.

One thing I think gets over looked a lot is looking at your whole arrow set up (with broadhead) as a delivery system, one weak spot in the system and it can (i didn't say will) all go to crap so to speak.

You want a system that when it is shot can have as much energy as possible transferred from the bow to the arrow, that starts with how the arrow comes off the string, is it in the best possible way so that as little correction as possible needs to happen. any correction that needs to happen robs energy from the arrow. so if the arrow is not coming off straight the vanes have to correct it you just lost energy.
we want the arrow to carry as much energy as possible so that energy can be used once the arrow hits the animals to drive it (push it) through the animal.
Many things can rob energy and need to be considered. Are the blades of the broadhead bending or holding, is the arrow flexing to much, is the arrow breaking. Any of those will rob energy and thus rob penetration. This is where structural integrity of the delivery system as a whole is important! This is where Weak components really come into play! Thin walled arrows or brittle arrows are prone to more problems. The same goes for weak thin broadheads and even crappy nocks can cause problems. When the arrow hits the animal we want that stored energy (as much as possible) to drive/push the arrow through what ever it contacts and stay on a straight course.

the best way to figure out what is best for your setup is to test different things and be critical of your setup. pick it apart, whats weak or has the highest potential to fail and what out there can make it better. That's different for everyone, for me I have always figured if I can spend money on a new bow and new camo and packs and the other crap I spend money on, I sure the hell better be willing to spend some money on the thing that actually kills the animals.

so below is how I personally set my stuff up. I am not trying to tell anyone else how to set theirs up but maybe this will show you another way to set it up.

For my personal setup and some of my customers (not everyone wants to go this deep) we start with figuring out roughly what arrow weight and FOC they want. picking the right arrow and components to get there or as close as possible. building a couple of those arrows and then tuning the bow, if the bow paper tunes well, we will then bare-shaft tune the bow. once we are satisfied with the all of that we then build the rest of the arrows which includes spinning and cutting from both ends if needed, nock tuning and then clocking the arrows. once clocked we fletch with a right or left helical based on the natural spin of the arrow coming off the bow. this allows for as much energy as possible to be retained by the delivery system (arrow) as possible.

My personal setup is an Easton Axis 260 with 50 grain brass hit insert, a 16 grain footer (1.5" long) a 150 grain head, fire nock and 3 blazer vanes with a left helical. total arrow weight is 606 grains, I have yet to have one of these arrows brake, and have shot rebar, a rock, bone and a bull with a frontal shot where the arrow went in cut 3 ribs and then logged in the pelvis plus several deer and wolf. I am by no means saying they wont brake, but I have not had an issue with one yet.

I hope this can help someone in some way
Recipe for sucess right there. ^
 

Brendan

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Joined
Aug 27, 2013
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Location
Massachusetts
I am no expert and dont have near the experience that other guys do. And there are lots of people online who have a lot less experience than me. People like Aron and Dudley have decades of experience and have killed hundreds of animals using many different bows, arrows and components so why not use their experience to help you? I have tried quite a bit of different setups and dont do things just because Aron said so, so you are wrong there. And for the record Aron has tons of experience with compounds despite shooting a trad bow now. So just a couple facts for you to consider since you seem to want to run your mouth...online.

Might want to take a look in the mirror when you talk about running your mouth online. And, since you seem to be such a fan of podcasts, how about you take some advice from your favorite hosts that you seem to quote in every thread I see you in: Stop being that guy online parroting back other people's experience when you (admittedly) don't have much of it yourself. Get out and learn and do the tuning yourself, learn and do the testing yourself. Then come back with your own results or your own data. Which is what a bunch of the people in this thread you're arguing with have done...

Some other points from the thread while I'm here - I've tested a bunch of half outs and outserts, did a bunch of testing with a semi-custom Deep 6 setup, and haven't found one yet that I like from a durability perspective when compared to a brass HIT. Quite honestly - every one I've tried has been a pain in the ass. I think I've broken a grand total of one HIT on impact - and that was on a piece of plate steel without a footer with a 520 grain arrow at 270 fps.

In terms of heavy arrow, light arrow, high FOC, low FOC - it all depends. Each has it's place and each can be better or worse depending on the scenario.
 
OP
DavePwns

DavePwns

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Joined
Dec 9, 2017
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441
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ID
So I will throw my 2 cents in here, as someone who tests a lot of products and as someone who now owns an archery shop. as a point of clarification my shop is not a full retail shop like most we are a tuning arrow building business.
There are many factors to consider when we talk about arrows. Is the spine correct, how was the arrow built (factory, carbon type and how it was layered), how was the arrow put together at the shop?home, what is the wall thickness, what components are being used and on and on.

One thing I think gets over looked a lot is looking at your whole arrow set up (with broadhead) as a delivery system, one weak spot in the system and it can (i didn't say will) all go to crap so to speak.

You want a system that when it is shot can have as much energy as possible transferred from the bow to the arrow, that starts with how the arrow comes off the string, is it in the best possible way so that as little correction as possible needs to happen. any correction that needs to happen robs energy from the arrow. so if the arrow is not coming off straight the vanes have to correct it you just lost energy.
we want the arrow to carry as much energy as possible so that energy can be used once the arrow hits the animals to drive it (push it) through the animal.
Many things can rob energy and need to be considered. Are the blades of the broadhead bending or holding, is the arrow flexing to much, is the arrow breaking. Any of those will rob energy and thus rob penetration. This is where structural integrity of the delivery system as a whole is important! This is where Weak components really come into play! Thin walled arrows or brittle arrows are prone to more problems. The same goes for weak thin broadheads and even crappy nocks can cause problems. When the arrow hits the animal we want that stored energy (as much as possible) to drive/push the arrow through what ever it contacts and stay on a straight course.

the best way to figure out what is best for your setup is to test different things and be critical of your setup. pick it apart, whats weak or has the highest potential to fail and what out there can make it better. That's different for everyone, for me I have always figured if I can spend money on a new bow and new camo and packs and the other crap I spend money on, I sure the hell better be willing to spend some money on the thing that actually kills the animals.

so below is how I personally set my stuff up. I am not trying to tell anyone else how to set theirs up but maybe this will show you another way to set it up.

For my personal setup and some of my customers (not everyone wants to go this deep) we start with figuring out roughly what arrow weight and FOC they want. picking the right arrow and components to get there or as close as possible. building a couple of those arrows and then tuning the bow, if the bow paper tunes well, we will then bare-shaft tune the bow. once we are satisfied with the all of that we then build the rest of the arrows which includes spinning and cutting from both ends if needed, nock tuning and then clocking the arrows. once clocked we fletch with a right or left helical based on the natural spin of the arrow coming off the bow. this allows for as much energy as possible to be retained by the delivery system (arrow) as possible.

My personal setup is an Easton Axis 260 with 50 grain brass hit insert, a 16 grain footer (1.5" long) a 150 grain head, fire nock and 3 blazer vanes with a left helical. total arrow weight is 606 grains, I have yet to have one of these arrows brake, and have shot rebar, a rock, bone and a bull with a frontal shot where the arrow went in cut 3 ribs and then logged in the pelvis plus several deer and wolf. I am by no means saying they wont brake, but I have not had an issue with one yet.

I hope this can help someone in some way
Thank you for sharing such great info
 

bmart2622

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Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
2,177
Location
Montana
I never claimed to have experience with Valkyrie or Day 6 that I brought up here, but you're right, I did learn about them from Aron and plan to try them. I have shot plenty of different set ups like I mentioned and do my own experiments with things. I go through lots of different gear so again Brendan, you are mistaken. I personally have never bent a half out and have only had 1 out of probably 3 dozen not spin for me. On the other hand I have had loads of problems with aluminum inserts, again this is through my own experience and not "parroting" anyone. I also used to shoot a lighter arrrow and have sinced moved to a heavier arrow with more point weight, yes, off the idea heard from those with more experience. I have found through my own shooting it works better. Just to name a few of the many tests I have done.So again, I dont "parrot" anyone and dont claim to have experience with anything I have never used before, I will share my plans of products I plan to use just like I did in this thread.
 
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bmart2622

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Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
2,177
Location
Montana
Hey DavePwns, sorry for any part I played in derailing the original intent of your thread. I should know better by now to not lower myself to others level. I hope you find a setup that works for you, good luck in the future!
 
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