Setting up a bow - from scratch

[Brendan]

So, my Hoyt recently had some work done on it, including new strings installed, so I am currently setting it up from scratch. I figured while I'm doing it, I might as well document the process to get it dialed in. All the way from initial setup, to broadhead tuned and ready to hunt with sight tapes generated. I figure this might answer some questions for some other people, and maybe someone teaches me something along the way.

Any questions - ask away.

My bow is a 2016 Hoyt Carbon Defiant Turbo, #3 cam. I'll be in the A or the B slot of the cam because of my draw length (more forgiving, but slower). Tools that I use include a vice to get everything leveled, press, draw board, digital bow scale and a variety of small things.

So far - put the bow in a vice this morning with the sight bar installed. I use a combination of small levels to make it easy to keep everything leveled in various directions. I use two of the Hamskea easy levels, a big construction level, and then cheap string / arrow levels to check everything.

I am starting with my bow in the A slot - which should be 28", but in my experience my Hoyt's always run .5" or even a little more long when I get them set up. My finished draw length should be 28.5" - 28.75" with this bow.

First step with a Hoyt because of the rubber shelf pad - I take an allen key and stick it through the berger hole from the back, and put a silver dot of paint on the rubber shelf in the center of the hole so I can align my arrow there later.

Next - I cut off the d loop and nocking points that the dealer installed for me because they weren't in the right place for my liking. I installed my sight bar so I can level off of it, and then installed and leveled my rest. My starting point is with the rest as far forward as it'll go without interfering with the riser shelf. This may be modified later once I do some torque tuning.

Next step - install top and bottom nock points to keep an arrow dead level dead center through the berger hole. I set center shot so a nocked arrow at brace runs straight parallel to the riser. On my Hoyt this is around 13/16" measured from above the rubber shelf pad at the front of the riser to the center of the arrow. I like dual nock points so I can change a D-loop later without needing to re-tune at all. After everything is where I want it - I install a D-loop but don't really cinch it down yet.

That's where I am now - bow goes in the press next to set initial draw weight, timing, cam lean and make sure that I'm not getting any peep rotation...


Some tools:

Berger Hole:

Bow in the vice in my little dungeon of a shop:

 

[WyoBowhunter21]

Glad to see a post like this. There are a lot of guys and gals on this forum that look for stuff like this. Thanks.

 

[Brendan]

Hoyt gave this bow a little special setup when they had it.... I had to change very, very little.

Checked my draw weight - coming in at 72 - 72.5lb. Right where I like it. Checked timing - I use a slightly smaller draw stop on the bottom with this specific bow, I installed that stop and timing was dead on. (Note - this is specific to some of the 2016/2017 Hoyts because of how vertical nock travel ends up - most of the time I don't change the draw stops and start dead even).

Checked my pre-lean. I like an arrow run down the left side of the top cam to intersect my string around the D-loop. That gives me a pretty good starting point. It was already dead-on - no yoke twists needed yet. Thank you Hoyt!

Set my peep height and put one twist in the bottom of the string to get rid of any peep rotation.

Set up my drop-away rest using my draw board so that the limb cable just barely goes slack at full draw.

Time to shoot - shot a fletched arrow and bare shaft at 5-7 yards - got a slight tail left. Shot once more to confirm - still there. Back in the press, 1/2 twist in the left yoke, 1/2 twist out of the right yoke. Moved the sight a little left to get my left/right sight in closer, shot one more fletched and one more bare shaft - and I'm getting pretty dead on for this range. Close enough for shooting in the crowded basement with no stabilizers.

Time to head to the range now, so measured all my specs where I'm starting.

Centershot = 13/16"
Nock Height = Dead level, arrow through the center of the Berger hole
DW = 72.5lb peak
HW = 18lb
Letoff = 75%
DL = 28.5" (In the A Slot, so running 1/2" longer than spec)
Peep Height = 4" (At full draw)
Brace Height = 5 15/16"
A to A: 33 3/16"

Next up - head to the range for some Torque Tuning / Torque Testing so I can finalize rest and Sight positions. Not bad for a couple hours on a morning off...

Checking Pre Lean using an arrow on the left side of the top cam:

Results after twisting the yokes:

 

[Brendan]

I suppose I should put this out there now. If you're going to press a Hoyt, GET AN APPROVED PRESS. Because of the beyond parallel nature of the limbs - using the wrong press could shoot the bow out of the press damaging the bow and hurting you.... They're not kidding when they say this.

I personally use a Buckeye Archery Bow-A-Constrictor with the approved safety straps, and an integrated draw board.

Here's the list:

Warning! You're Responsible For Archery Safety. | Hoyt.com

As of today:

Due to the past-parallel limb angle on some models of Hoyt bows, only certain bow presses can safely be used. All Hoyt bows that feature the Hoyt UltraFlex Limb System, which include the Carbon Defiant, Carbon Defiant 34, Carbon Defiant Turbo, Defiant, Defiant 34, Defiant Turbo and HyperEdge CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be pressed in most standard bow presses.

Hoyt approved bow presses:
Last Chance EZ Press ™ ONLY when equipped with the Ultra-Lock Adapters™
BowForce Archery Hunter V-Press™
Spikepress ™ bow press
X Press Pro™ bow press
Specialty Archery Pro Press™
Synunm Archery Portable Press™ ONLY when equipped with the Ultra-Flex Adapter Straps
Buckeye Bow-A-Constrictor™ ONLY when used with UltraFlex Adapter Straps
UniGram Uni Press adapter when used with an appropriate finger-style press

 

[Brendan]

Ok, stop at Home Depot and Dunkin' Donuts, and I'm at the range...

First - cold group with my Prime at 60 yards.

Then, back to the Hoyt - sighted in at 30 yards, sprayed the rest down with foot powder and made sure there was no fletching contact.

 

[Brendan]

Will add more details on the process later, but Torque Tuning / Testing is done. Almost no horizontal movement of my point of impact regardless of torque.

This is a normal arrow, purposefully torquing left, and then right at 40 yards. That means my rest and sight are in a good spot in terms of forgiveness.

*****
EDIT:

Here's a link to torque tuning by Tim Gillingham:

Torque Tuning a Compound Bow

But basically you do this. With your bow sighted in, draw back, purposefully torque the bow left so your stabilizer points left of the target, put your pin on the bullseye and shoot. Repeat the process with the stabilizer torqued right. (Note - don't overdo it, you don't want to derail your bow when you shoot....)

If your arrow hits away from your point of aim in the direction your stabilizer is pointed - you need to extend your sight or move your rest back. If the arrow hits in the opposite direction from your stabilizer - you need to move your sight or your rest in. There is no way to really determine the ideal spot other than testing, and the rest tends to have a much bigger effect than the sight.

In my case - My bow was already in the sweet spot. Torqued left or right - arrows still hit in the same spot, at least within my normal margin of error. Which works great, because the sight is where I like it anyways out away from the riser so it sits nicely within my peep. Note that with my bow - I do not want my rest far back like Gillingham talks about in his article. For me - as far forward as it goes actually works better.

 

[Brendan]

Bare shaft hitting with fletched first at 30, then 40 yards. Within my margin of error so I'll keep testing, but no adjustments required.

 

[Brendan]

Then a couple groups at 60 to start dialing in windage and sight marks before I started getting tired and getting some fliers...

Time to head home and come back to this later. I have a bit of a noise coming from my rest, so need to check that, and then it's more time checking tune and sight marks.

***

EDIT - also need to check / set 1st, 2nd, 3rd Axes on my sight before final sighting in and sight marks. Need to measure my sight radius so I can plug the measurement into OT2 for generating sight tapes, and I want to run my arrows through the chrono now that everything's tuned to see where speed ends up.

 

[Brendan]

Trying to make the most of a day off to work on this.

Replaced the launcher cable and tightened everything down to get rid of the noise I had at the range.

Adjusted / Verified 1st, 2nd and 3rd axes on my sight.

Put an extra limbsaver on my string stop.

Then, ran a couple arrows through the chrono.

IBO rating coming out somewhere close to 340 fps.

KE close to 85 ft-lb, momentum near .61

 

[Brendan]

Ok, I think that's about all the progress I'll make for one day, but I'm almost there. So at this point I have at least two more trips to the range, but that could be it. I need to:

Verify bare shaft / broadhead tune. I may sign off on this at the next trip if broadheads are hitting right with field points at long range, but to be honest, I'll be keeping an eye on this right up until the season shooting some every time I'm out. I may decide I need very subtle changes to my rest, yokes are probably good at this point.

Shoot for accuracy at 40 and 60 yards, really concentrating to get accurate sight marks. My sight allows me to micro adjust elevation and then plug the numbers into OT2 to generate my sight tape, but I really need to pay attention, and shoot well to get those marks before plugging it into the program. Garbage in - garbage out...

Then I need to plug everything into OT2, print out my sight tapes, put them on the bow, then get out and shoot at all sorts of different ranges to verify.

Then - unless something changes, I'd call it done and it's all about practice and being comfortable with the bow. I'll also need to decide if I'm going to use this as my primary bow, or my Centergy Hybrid, and I also have a multi-pin dovetail that I can swap in if I decide I want 5 pins plus a floater instead of the double pin.

 

[yoopshoot]

Nice writeup! thanks for the detailed setup.

 

[OR Archer]

Nicely done!

 

[bojangles808]

great thread. probably should be stickied. i was shocked how easily my nitrum tuned. great bows

 

[Brendan]

Thanks guys. I'm not done yet. I changed the draw module from the A slot, to the B Slot to try out a slightly longer draw length - a little too long. Switched back to the A slot, a little short. Took off the grip and will shoot this with side plates - better. This puts me right at 28.75". Can't believe I haven't done this before, but I prefer it to the Hoyt grip. Should also be more consistent from a torque perspective.

I did notice that my strings settled in some from shooting, and possibly from making the draw length changes, so I will need to check my tune again. I had to put one full twist in the buss cable because my peak draw weight was a little lower than when I'd last measured, and the top draw stop was lagging. Added that twist to the bottom - and draw stop pegs are hitting at the same time again, maybe with the bottom 1/16" (or less) ahead. Draw weight is right around 72lb again.

Hoping to be back at the range again tomorrow, but so far I think the Prime is winning the race for being my "Primary" bow this season. Lower holding weight, bigger valley, and I have the poundage at 76 so it's actually outperforming the Hoyt by a hair. Broadheads are hitting dead on too - First is a Fixed Blade at 60, Second is a Mechanical.

 

[Brendan]

Figured this was a good time to add in my setup notes. If anyone sees anything wrong with these, let me know and I'll edit.

One quick note - there are some people that say the notes on left/right rest movement would be backwards (There's an infamous, old thread on AT that recommends the opposite....) I'm not ruling that out 100%, but I've never once encountered it....

Also - these are mainly centered around Hybrids like Hoyts, but there's also bullets in here about shimming cams or cranking in/out a flex guard like you have on a Prime...

One more - I prefer not to untwist cables / strings where possible because you can get serving separation. I prefer to tighten.

Notes:

Buss cable - Yokes on Top, One Loop On Bottom - a twist in the buss cable advances the top cam (makes it hit sooner), it lengthens draw length, decreases ATA and increases letoff/valley (assuming timing was even before the twist).

Control cable - One Loop On Bottom and Top - a twist in the control cable slows down the top cam, shortens draw length. It’s effect on ATA, valley and letoff are dependent on the others.

String - a twist in the string shortens draw length, valley and decreases letoff. It plays a role in ATA and draw weight but it is secondary to to the buss.

All - a twist out produces the opposite effect.

Paper, Bare Shaft and Broadhead Tuning

Note - For a right handed shooter! Some may change if you're a southpaw...

Nock Left - Broadhead Misses Right
* Broadhead hitting right is the same as bareshafts hitting right or a tail left tear.
* Tighten Left Yoke
* Loosen Right Yoke
* Rest Right
* Spine too Weak
* Shim Cam(s) to the Left
* Crank flex guard out for less sideways string pressure / less string clearance.

Nock Right - Broadhead misses Left
* Broadhead hitting left is the same as bareshafts hitting left or a tail right tear.
* Tighten Right Yoke
* Loosen Left Yoke
* Rest Left
* Spine too Stiff
* Shim Cam(s) to the Right
* Crank down flex guard for more sideways string pressure / more string clearance.

Nock High - Broadhead Misses Low
* Visualize an arrow pointed down - it will miss low as a bare shaft or broadhead
* Raise the rest up to correct
* Or, lower nocking point & D-loop
* Or, tighten control cable to bring bottom cam ahead
* Or, lengthen buss cable to bring top cam back towards even or hitting behind bottom cam

Nock Low - Broadhead Misses High
* Visualize an arrow pointed up - it will miss high as a bare shaft or broadhead
* Lower the rest down to correct
* Or, raise nocking point & D-loop
* Or, tighten buss cable to bring top cam ahead
* Or, loosen control cable to bring bottom cam behind

 

[Brendan]

Decided to go mobile today and brought the press to the range:

Had been getting a consistent bare shaft low and right, so put a twist in the control cable and bumped the rest up a hair combined with a quick yoke adjustment for the left / right.

One of the peculiarities with the DFX cam Hoyts is that some of them tune with bottom cam ahead. I haven't checked exactly how far ahead it is now, but I'll likely put the limb stop on to firm up the back wall and keep everything consistent no matter how hard I pull.

Wasn't as consistent with my bare shafts today, so switched to a broadhead to compare to field points at 50 yards before calling it good for today:

I have pretty good sight marks at this point. I think I'll put the limb stop on, one more trip to verify everything, and then generate a sight tape and hopefully call it done...

 

[Brendan]

Closing this out. Bow may need some minor tweaking at long range, but pretty sure I'm calling it done now.... This is my backup, so trying to move to shooting my Prime the majority of the time.

Used OT2 to generate sight tapes, limb stop is on, and it's ready to go if I need it...

With regards to OT2 - not sure if the IBO calcs are correct in that diagram - I'm running in the "A" slot of the Hoyt cam, which is supposed to be 28". But, It's running about 1/2" long, and then I removed the grip to get to about 28.75". But regardless - This bow is rated at 350 IBO, but real world it's important to realize that changes based on a lot of factors...

 

[Blockcaver]

Brendan, great writeup! Thanks!

Which Prime are you shooting? (Really like how my 2016 Rival shoots, especially in the field on game.)

 

[Brendan]

My Prime is the Centergy Hybrid, 80 lbs, set at 76. Versus the Hoyt Carbon Defiant Turbo, even though it has higher peak weight, it has much lower holding weight (Higher letoff) and is a smoother draw with a bigger valley which makes it easier to hold at full draw. I'm making about the same speeds with the same arrows, a little faster with the prime. Funny - but I was SOLD on my Hoyt until it ended up going into the shop and that forced my hand to pick up the new bow.

First shot of the day, 81 yards, Just at the edge of the 10 ring with the Prime... Although I've gotten much better with the Hoyt too, I've really never shot better...

The bow:

 

[young7.3]

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