Valkyrie System Destructive Testing

[bulzeye11]

All of this testing was done with the Valkyrie component system.

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oh ok. i didn't realize that was an entire system.

 

[IrishnId]

Looking at this system for this year. Greatly appreciate your input.

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[Ranch Fairy]

My Apologies to the Op. Not personal. None of this extreme testing is good for any archery company.

I don't own any valkerie anything, this is not brand specific.... But I have plenty of high FOC, meat impacts on my Channel.
A couple you tube click baiters have popularized the "lets break everything...EXTREEEMMMMEEEEEEE" testing. Doesn't help the whole industry, they get a few clicks and blah, blah, blah, break more stuff. Plus I've seen some shots inside of houses and close range in the back yard....freaking dangerous.

Physiology for rednecks.
Bones are relatiely elastic as part of a system to manange "walking around and running".
God, being a super genius, built these bone things, to take impact and work along with the following progressive load system: muscle, tendons, bone, its a super duper "shock absorbing" system. Like the front end of your truck: shock absorber, upper control arm, lower control arm, bushings....preparing for the unknown as you toodle down the trail.
Apparently God knew the ground was going to be uneven. He made animals that chase other animals. For both the predator and prey this shock absorber system would be required. Ain't that something.
So, can we agree animals are not steel, brick, etc. These things called broadheads relieve tremendous impact pressure, which is NOT RELIEVED when you bounce arrows back at yourself. Two completely different impact / energy transfers. You will continue to see failures at the end of any sleeve or insert because the shaft wobbles like a twizzler on impact as your blunt bounces back, the "open" arrow just beyond the insert / outsert is the closest weak point.

The philospophical guys would say "causality is not correlation". But that's way too much for the message boards.

You guys need to be very careful shooting the shaft multiple times. There's gonna be a nasty picture of carbon fibers in a hand soon. Tough to get them out.

Save the bricks.

 

[SoDaky]

Amen.
Poor analogy perhaps but this type of testing would have kept many great hunting bullets off the market as well.

 

[Beendare]

Good test....interesting....thanks for posting.

I can see this mattering on big critters like Water buff.....

But even then, I've shot those big critters with an arrow- no problems with my arrows.

I've shot Axis arrow through both Scapulas of elk- the arrow went so far down the hill I never found it. Same with big hogs....even shooting a changing boar through the forehead-bent the end on that one...but the arrow stopped the hog in his tracks, so I would say it performed well.

These were mostly med weight arrows 440gr -500gr....no collars... with tapered COC heads. I've got extensive experience with these Axis- a hundred critters anyway....and have never had one split in an animal. Not one. Yeah, I've had them break on the rocks when they blew though a critter....no surprise there.

I'm not trying to knock your test....I get that some guys like to tinker.. .I'm just saying that IME, it hasn't been worth the effort to go to extra ordinary lengths and expense of some of these systems.

..

..

 

[PathFinder]

This testing wasn't ever intended to simulate bone, in terms of knowing whether or not the setup would make it through a certain size shoulder etc. That testing is coming when I get bored again. Or maybe when I'm back in Africa and have access to a wide variety of test specimens. The goal was to find an impact proof arrow setup (if one existed). RanchFairy, YouTube channels like yours are what made me question off the shelf "wal-mart" arrow setups. I decided that a fail-proof arrow could be had, and I was either going to find it or make it. The Valkyrie setup does it, and as a bonus is the most inherently align-able broadhead system in production. There are a handful of other impact proof, solid setups. I liked the Axis arrows I played with, they did really well. What I ended up with isn't the only way to do it. The bigger lesson is that failing to test hunting equipment is lazy and irresponsible.
My conclusion after doing some research was that it was unnecessary and even idiotic to shoot an arrow setup that can fail. There's so little engineering that goes into 90% of what is on the market now. No metallurgy, no FMEA, nothing. Archery manufacturers design products, but fail to engineer them. A few companies like Iron Will, Valkyrie, and others are making big improvements. To me there's no reason to use junk when good stuff is available. It's not that expensive. A couple hundred extra bucks a dozen. Less than a day of work for an arrow setup that eliminates impact failures, penetration failures, and increases confidence. As much time and effort as I put into the hunting part of things (time off work, travel, gear, food, tags, backpacking in x miles, etc), I'd pay a lot more to make certain the arrow isn't going to put it all to waste.
This isn't a reveal all, end all arrow test. It was a cheap, simple way to test the impact resistance of different shafts and component systems. Just one aspect of arrow performance is all this tested. Actual bone breaching will be different, and remains to be tested. Don't think I'm trying to say it means more than it does.

 

[BofussJoe]

Did you ever test the 250 VAP shafts?

 

[PathFinder]

Did you ever test the 250 VAP shafts?

I did, both the TKO and the regular VAP. The TKOs would break just behind the center pin every time, and the regular VAP broke about 1/3 of the way up the shaft.

 

[Spiegel]

I finally got around to testing the X Impacts. I fully expected it to shatter similarly to the Gold Tips and VAPs. Surprisingly, it survived without a single crack. One of two things is going on. Either Black Eagle's combination of carbon and resin is superior to the other manufacturers, or there are two thresholds for impact resistance. One on the high gpi end(Zelor/Day Six) , where the toughness of the material overcomes the additional mass. One on the light end (X Impact), where the mass is little enough that the arrow shaft's mass isn't driving itself apart. Either way, I'm really pleased with the X Impacts and the behavior of the high FOC setup overall. I'd trust them on a direct shoulder hit and I'll probably be shooting them for the foreseeable future. I'm shooting a 250 spine shaft, aluminum collar, Easton nock, 250 grain points, and a one piece plastic fletch. Total arrow weight is 545, FOC is 21%. I'm shooting both 250 Valkyrie Jaggers and glue on adapters with 120 grain Abowyer Bonehead Lites. Bow is a Prime Logic at 80#/27". I still get to 100 on my sight tape with a small Axcel housing.

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I'm kinda curious as to why during my few exchanges of emails with Valkyrie Archery that they recommended that the heaviest head I should get is 180gr with the 54gr component/sleeve. My bow is 81# and 28inch draw length. Only and inch longer then your draw length yet you use a 250grain point which by it self is already heavier then the recommended weight head + sleeve and you're getting 21% FOC. I thought they advocated for high FOC and wanted to achieve somewhere around 20-25% like yours.

 

[PathFinder]

I'm kinda curious as to why during my few exchanges of emails with Valkyrie Archery that they recommended that the heaviest head I should get is 180gr with the 54gr component/sleeve. My bow is 81# and 28inch draw length. Only and inch longer then your draw length yet you use a 250grain point which by it self is already heavier then the recommended weight head + sleeve and you're getting 21% FOC. I thought they advocated for high FOC and wanted to achieve somewhere around 20-25% like yours.

Is he suggesting that based on a 250 spine arrow? You could probably use an arrow just 1/2" longer than mine and clear your rest. Mine aren't as short as they could be. Is there any reason you want to use the heavier sleeve? I have yet to have an aluminum one fail with this system. The reason aluminum fails in typical outsert designs is because the design puts a large amount of torque on the outsert, the Valkyrie system doesn't. Brent said he only does the stainless sleeve to add weight, not durability. Same reason he came out with a 100gr sleeve recently. If I were in your situation I'd buy test kit and try it, but I bet either the 250 or 230 heads and an aluminum sleeve would be fine on a 250 spine arrow.

 

[Spiegel]

Is he suggesting that based on a 250 spine arrow? You could probably use an arrow just 1/2" longer than mine and clear your rest. Mine aren't as short as they could be. Is there any reason you want to use the heavier sleeve? I have yet to have an aluminum one fail with this system. The reason aluminum fails in typical outsert designs is because the design puts a large amount of torque on the outsert, the Valkyrie system doesn't. Brent said he only does the stainless sleeve to add weight, not durability. Same reason he came out with a 100gr sleeve recently. If I were in your situation I'd buy test kit and try it, but I bet either the 250 or 230 heads and an aluminum sleeve would be fine on a 250 spine arrow.

Yeah, it would be based on the 250 spine arrow.

 

[littlebrotherC]

My Apologies to the Op. Not personal. None of this extreme testing is good for any archery company.

I don't own any valkerie anything, this is not brand specific.... But I have plenty of high FOC, meat impacts on my Channel.
A couple you tube click baiters have popularized the "lets break everything...EXTREEEMMMMEEEEEEE" testing. Doesn't help the whole industry, they get a few clicks and blah, blah, blah, break more stuff. Plus I've seen some shots inside of houses and close range in the back yard....freaking dangerous.

Physiology for rednecks.
Bones are relatiely elastic as part of a system to manange "walking around and running".
God, being a super genius, built these bone things, to take impact and work along with the following progressive load system: muscle, tendons, bone, its a super duper "shock absorbing" system. Like the front end of your truck: shock absorber, upper control arm, lower control arm, bushings....preparing for the unknown as you toodle down the trail.
Apparently God knew the ground was going to be uneven. He made animals that chase other animals. For both the predator and prey this shock absorber system would be required. Ain't that something.
So, can we agree animals are not steel, brick, etc. These things called broadheads relieve tremendous impact pressure, which is NOT RELIEVED when you bounce arrows back at yourself. Two completely different impact / energy transfers. You will continue to see failures at the end of any sleeve or insert because the shaft wobbles like a twizzler on impact as your blunt bounces back, the "open" arrow just beyond the insert / outsert is the closest weak point.

The philospophical guys would say "causality is not correlation". But that's way too much for the message boards.

You guys need to be very careful shooting the shaft multiple times. There's gonna be a nasty picture of carbon fibers in a hand soon. Tough to get them out.

Save the bricks.

I’m enjoying the heck out of this thread and don’t appreciate your condescending attitude.

 

[RaggedHunter]

I'm enjoying this thread also. I find your results are very interesting. I will say I have not tested the Valkyrie system, so I cannot speak to that, but I have done some destructive testing of my own and found similar results with regards to some of the arrows that the OP tested.

I had a a GT pierce platinum 300 fail directly behind the outsert on a mid rib hit on an elk. This led me to start doing a little of my own destructive testing, I tried several different outsert/deep six instert combos with the GT pierce arrows and had virtually the exact same results as the OP when it came to hard hits. I had several combinations that broke off directly behind the outsert/collar, and other combinations that would break in 2 places. Once I switched away from the GT half out system I found a couple outserts/ halfouts that the copmonents held up to hard impacts (ethics outserts were a good option), but the arrow continued to be the weak point of the system.

I recently bought a test pack of the Day Six arrows 300 spine (essentially the same as the Zelors OP tested with better tolerances and a better halfout system) I tested them with their new centric outsert system (50gr aluminum in my tests). I was extremely impressed with this setup. This is by far my favorite .166 combo I have found.

The day six arrows are built like a tank, they are no longer the weak point of the system. I've shot the same arrow into cinder blocks at 20, 30 and 40 yards and it still spins perfectly true. I never had a single pierce make it through a single hard impact let alone multiple, hell I've had pierces that broke on 3/4" plywood.

I personally like seeing and hearing peoples experiences with this kind of testing. In my opinion, it exposes the potential weak points of a setup.