How much meat is ethical?

[Newtosavage]

My opinion is that nothing gets wasted in nature. What I dont take helps feed the cycle of life. One can say to take a little more. Someone else could say to take a little more than that. In truth, unless you are taking the whole animal out you are leaving something usable behind.

This is of course, the correct answer.

 

[Broomd]

1. All of it.

2. Don’t pull the trigger when I know I can’t pack it out.

3. Report the scumbags for wanton waste to LEO.

 

[Broomd]

I photo my gut pile with ribs etc, scraped to the bone, and I photo the GPS/field dress site to show F&G I mean business. Started doing this a long time ago after dealing with Alaskan NPS dipsh ts who would simply lift a game bag with my sheep meat and 'guess' if I took all the meat.

 

[archer wapiti]

Horses are something I am unfamiliar with, so I guess the “crotch-punch” comes with an asterisk for exceptions such as that. I will volunteer to be your apprectince on your next horse hunt... you know, so you can teach me all the ins and outs of horse packing!! I’m very interested in not packing out any more elk... I mean, learning about horses.

ha! I'm no expert, don't have horses. I can school you right now: show up at a trailhead at the end of a rutted two-track driving a white hyundai accent and impress the guy with horses how excited you are to be elk hunting so that he offers to haul your bull out if you kill one. Failing that strategy, show up with enough Benjamins to be persuasive to an outfitter that it's worth a few hours of his time to help you out!

 

[sneaky]

I hunt country that is big enough that I could never carry an elk out, so we use horses. I have seen more people packing in in recent years on foot, and this year saw a pair of guys kill a bull maybe 4 miles in and 2500 feet down from their car. They packed out the head, 2 bags of boned out meat, and left.
I realize that modern gear allows for hiking and camping with a reasonable load, but packing out is as heavy as it ever was. Most hunters I see look nothing like the guys sheep hunting in Sitka/Kuiu/First Lite adds, but we all imagine ourselves that way.

1. How much meat do people feel is ethical to leave?

2. How do you limit yourself to insure that you are able to pack out what you kill?

It's not an ethical question, it's a legal issue. If anything those idiots should have left the head and packed out all the meat. What they did is wanton waste and is punishable by fines and license suspension.

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[mfllood3800]

This year in Idaho I left 3 screaming bulls at a mile away.
I felt like I failed.
They were deep down in from where I was.
I actually closed half the distance, but realized no way I could Get them back up to where needed.

I even went back there the next day and tried descending a different way, but realized I couldn't get then back up and out.
Hardest decision for me in years.

You just gotta know you can get it all out, or don't shoot. I even try to take ribs when possible, but have not always.



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[KHNC]

Me and ElkMtnGear packed out my Wyoming bull in one trip this year. Just over a mile to the trail head. it was a freak 4x3 so no head or cape, just the antlers i cut off. We had about 180-200lbs id say. Not a giant bull by any means, but it can certainly be done without wasting meat. My NM bull two years ago took 4 loads of 100lbs on each of us.(2 trips) and just barely got it all out. 16+miles total.

 

[cgasner1]

Pretty interesting read about a guys moose float where he lost some meat and was fined in that section


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[rokclmb]

What happens when a couple fellas just wanna have a fresh loin or strap over the fire prior to packing out? Stool sample? Regurgitate?

 

[Kootenay Hunter]

If you're packing out the skull and horns and left meat behind, there is an issue there, not to mention the legal implications.

 

[wind gypsy]

The limit for how far in to shoot is always tough, especially for guys hunting solo. It's certainly easier during cooler months/rifle season. I got llamas this year solely because I was worried about getting a bull out solo before it spoiled.

Used a packing service this past weekend in SW MT just because I killed on the last day and didn't want to miss additional work days packing out solo. $600 to get a bull out roughly 3 miles with very minimal trail cutting..

 

[5MilesBack]

All of it! Jesus. This trophy shit has gone too far. Hunt for meat or don’t hunt at all.

What does Jesus have to do with it? On the other hand I'm pretty sure Jesus taught the principle of being good stewards. So in that sense, we should take all edible meat regardless of what the law says. The law never says that we "can't" take certain pieces of meat.

But what if a hunter has a cow tag and only takes what the state declares he has to take..........is that also "trophy shit"?

And for those that say all the meat has to come out first before any antlers........does that mean you're advocating someone should take the extra time to hike back to the truck or camp for their pack frame, thereby giving the meat even more time to spoil........and then haul all the meat and take even an extra trip to get the antlers and cape? When in reality, one could haul the head with cape and antlers out that first trip on their shoulders with their daypack instead of wasting that time and effort. Because I can and have hauled the antlers and head out with my day pack on, but there is no way my daypack or shoulders will be hauling a big game bag load of meat.

 

[stumpy waters]

I really don’t want to get into an ethics debate and I won’t, but I am curious since that’s what this thread has turned into. While I know this is about meat, there are opinions that nothing should be wasted and those who don’t take everything are unethical scumbags.
There’s a whole lot more edible on an elk than just meat and there is a whole lot more usable than just meat.

So here’s a few questions.

Are you taking the liver?
Are you taking the heart?
Are you taking the tongue?
Some cultures eat eyes, are you packing them out for soup?
Are you taking the hide and having it tanned to use for flooring or clothing?
Are you taking the brain? You need to bring that to tan the hide and if you don’t tan it yourself, you should donate the brain to someone who uses them for tanning so it doesn’t get wasted.
What about the small intestine? That should be brought out to use for meat casings.
Hooves contain keratin which is used in fire extinguishing foam.


If you aren’t bringing out every usable portion of what you kill, are you really bringing out everything? In not perhaps you were leaving things there to waste and being on ethical?

Now before the ethics crowd gets up in arms, I’m not looking for a debate. I’m just pointing out that no matter how ethical you think you are, there’s always another level.

 

[sneaky]

I really don’t want to get into an ethics debate and I won’t, but I am curious since that’s what this thread has turned into. While I know this is about meat, there are opinions that nothing should be wasted and those who don’t take everything are unethical scumbags.
There’s a whole lot more edible on an elk than just meat and there is a whole lot more usable than just meat.

So here’s a few questions.

Are you taking the liver?
Are you taking the heart?
Are you taking the tongue?
Some cultures eat eyes, are you packing them out for soup?
Are you taking the hide and having it tanned to use for flooring or clothing?
Are you taking the brain? You need to bring that to tan the hide and if you don’t tan it yourself, you should donate the brain to someone who uses them for tanning so it doesn’t get wasted.
What about the small intestine? That should be brought out to use for meat casings.
Hooves contain keratin which is used in fire extinguishing foam.


If you aren’t bringing out every usable portion of what you kill, are you really bringing out everything? In not perhaps you were leaving things there to waste and being on ethical?

Now before the ethics crowd gets up in arms, I’m not looking for a debate. I’m just pointing out that no matter how ethical you think you are, there’s always another level.

Well, try bringing the brain out of a CWD state, like say, Montana, and see what happens. You have to know the laws in the state you are hunting in, and any states you are traveling through to get home. Hunters aren't going to take everything you listed because as a society those items aren't needed to survive anymore. Unless you are a period actor and just want to brag about what you did with parts of your elk.

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[stumpy waters]

Well, try bringing the brain out of a CWD state, like say, Montana, and see what happens. You have to know the laws in the state you are hunting in, and any states you are traveling through to get home. Hunters aren't going to take everything you listed because as a society those items aren't needed to survive anymore. Unless you are a period actor and just want to brag about what you did with parts of your elk.

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I didn’t say anything about taking anything out of state?

And you are correct, but none of it is needed to survive. Even the meat...

I agree. Know the laws and follow them. And if someone is following the law, leave them be and let’s stop all the ‘holier than thou’ ethics debates.

You make good points, but even more so, you are supporting the point I’m making. If someone wants to say that someone doesn’t bring out as much as they do and therefore they are unethical and wasting parts of an animal, we can take that as far as they want to take it. Most likely, we will find there isn’t a single ‘ethical’ individual on this board.

 

[Kootenay Hunter]

ethics are persuaded by societal acceptance, what is acceptable in the US may be totally unacceptable in another nation or region.

Even within the US, there are those that believe hunting itself is unethical.

Is there a universal hunter code of ethics? Nope.

Can a hunter follow all rules/laws to the t, but still be unethical? Yes.

I guess the big exercise is where the line is drawn in the sand....hence thread.

It's all good discussion.

 

[Kootenay Hunter]

You make good points, but even more so, you are supporting the point I’m making. If someone wants to say that someone doesn’t bring out as much as they do and therefore they are unethical and wasting parts of an animal, we can take that as far as they want to take it. Most likely, we will find there isn’t a single ‘ethical’ individual on this board.

Well, there is a point of reason/acceptance that generally sets the bar, not how far you can go.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

My personal practice:
4 quarters, backstraps, loins, neck meat, the meat over the ribs/brisket and heart. From there I inspect the thickness of meat between the ribs and thickness of the flank meat, for elk its thick and worth removing for sure, for deer it depends and for antelope its pretty thin.

Good to know on some wardens being sticklers about "shot" meat I'll start taking more photos just in case.

Then what constitutes “all of it”? I take the neck meat and the thicker portions of the brisket, but I have yet to carve out the rib meat and some of the smaller scraps around the ribs. Trying to quantify my rule of thumb, I’ll take anything that will yield meat after it gets hung and trimmed. There are some pieces that I don’t think will yield any meat for consumption. Anything thicker than my fingers will generally make it into the bags.

In regards to elk the meat between the ribs is actually pretty thick. Also the flank (the muscle that is over the gut sack) is actually really thick on elk also.

 

[MallardSX2]

At a minimum, the four quarters, tenderloins and backstraps.

 

[5MilesBack]

ethics are persuaded by societal acceptance

If that was the case, then we'd all consider hunting to be unethical, given society's overall lack of acceptance for hunting. My ethics aren't determined by society or anyone else.......only by me. That's why they're considered ethics and not laws. Now I would agree that laws are absolutely persuaded by societal acceptance or resistance.