How much meat is ethical?

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I hunt country that is big enough that I could never carry an elk out, so we use horses. I have seen more people packing in in recent years on foot, and this year saw a pair of guys kill a bull maybe 4 miles in and 2500 feet down from their car. They packed out the head, 2 bags of boned out meat, and left.
I realize that modern gear allows for hiking and camping with a reasonable load, but packing out is as heavy as it ever was. Most hunters I see look nothing like the guys sheep hunting in Sitka/Kuiu/First Lite adds, but we all imagine ourselves that way.

1. How much meat do people feel is ethical to leave?

2. How do you limit yourself to insure that you are able to pack out what you kill?
 
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All of it. No acceptable meat to leave behind. You took the animal's life, you owe it to take all the meat!
 

realunlucky

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Maybe those guys were planning multiple trips? Most states have clear regulations on what's considered eatable portion of the animal that has to be packed out. Utah for example is four quarters and backstraps no neck meat is required by law. Alaska is super strict and requires everything must be utilized. Just a couple examples. Two guys can pack every scrap of meat from a bull elk in two trips pretty easily if they get after it. I worry about temps more than distance or how rough the country is. Can a single horse carry an entire elk?

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elkduds

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CO law: Illegal to:
17. Fail to reasonably dress, care for and prepare edible wildlife meat for human consumption. At a minimum, the four quarters, tenderloins and backstraps are edible meat. Internal organs are not considered edible meat.
 

realunlucky

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I went to Wyoming with a couple buddies last year. I found an great buck for my buddy but someone had shot him high right though the backstrap. We put a perfect stalk on him but the shot was quartering to and took out the offside tenderloin. Anyway we get him all cleaned up and my buddy asked about the portion of backstrap and tenderloin and my response was leave it if your not going to eat it. Anyway when we get back to the truck we get checked by fish and game and he wants to see all the meat. Four quarters 1.5 backstraps and 1 tenderloin. Nope produce pictures of damage portion or retrieve them. I was so pissed who carries out everything but half a backstrap and one tenderloin. I had to hike the couple miles back and get them. It's the law and Wyoming officer didn't play around. Came back later to check. He said tons of people find all kinds of excuses to leave antelope meat behind
 
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IdahoElk

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I hunt country that is big enough that I could never carry an elk out, so we use horses. I have seen more people packing in in recent years on foot, and this year saw a pair of guys kill a bull maybe 4 miles in and 2500 feet down from their car. They packed out the head, 2 bags of boned out meat, and left.
I realize that modern gear allows for hiking and camping with a reasonable load, but packing out is as heavy as it ever was. Most hunters I see look nothing like the guys sheep hunting in Sitka/Kuiu/First Lite adds, but we all imagine ourselves that way.

1. How much meat do people feel is ethical to leave?

2. How do you limit yourself to insure that you are able to pack out what you kill?


I was in the same situation as you only 7miles and two 2'k passes in and this rokslide poster child came hiking through with a huge SG pack on with all the bells and whistles and told me he was going to hike a Elk out if he got lucky,I laughed and said you might want to rethink that cause there is no possible way you could do it.

Think about it
The average mature 6point yields about 300lbs of meat plus the head.
7 miles in =14miles round trip x 5 trips min + 1 trip for gear = 84 miles in 3 days before the meat goes bad.
I call BS on all these guys saying that they don't waste a huge amount of meat.
This is so unethical.
 

ljalberta

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I was in the same situation as you only 7miles and two 2'k passes in and this rokslide poster child came hiking through with a huge SG pack on with all the bells and whistles and told me he was going to hike a Elk out if he got lucky,I laughed and said you might want to rethink that cause there is no possible way you could do it.

Think about it
The average mature 6point yields about 300lbs of meat plus the head.
7 miles in =14miles round trip x 5 trips min + 1 trip for gear = 84 miles in 3 days before the meat goes bad.
I call BS on all these guys saying that they don't waste a huge amount of meat.
This is so unethical.

I get what your saying, but 5 trips for 300lbs is not needed. You might not do it, but plenty of guys do 100+ pounds loads. I personally know many sheep hunters who have lugged 100+ pound for multiple days getting rams out. If you can find a way to cool the meat, it gives you a little more wiggle room. Regardless, I agree with you in that some people certainly waste meat.
 

Ryan Avery

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I was in the same situation as you only 7miles and two 2'k passes in and this rokslide poster child came hiking through with a huge SG pack on with all the bells and whistles and told me he was going to hike a Elk out if he got lucky,I laughed and said you might want to rethink that cause there is no possible way you could do it.

Think about it
The average mature 6point yields about 300lbs of meat plus the head.
7 miles in =14miles round trip x 5 trips min + 1 trip for gear = 84 miles in 3 days before the meat goes bad.
I call BS on all these guys saying that they don't waste a huge amount of meat.
This is so unethical.



300 pounds of boned out meat on a big Rocky Mountain bull elk?

I am not an in shape guy. But I have hiked out a couple bulls solo at around 5 miles one way. It took me a couple days and it sucked. But its doable. So if you are a very fit guy, 7 miles one way seems doable. But the time of year is a factor.

Your Rokslide poster boy.
 
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hodgeman

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Couple of things...

1) leave none of it behind. In my state, it's illegal and it should be in all of them.

2) You have to consider it pretty carefully before you drop the hammer.

That said...people are generally more capable than you think. Once the animal is down...it's just time and calories at that point. Reasonable field care and meat can last an amazing amount of time before spoilage even at fairly warm temps.
 

realunlucky

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Can't you just spur the ol horse and distance yourself from all the poster boys eventually? Seems like an easier solution than trying to figure out who can carry what
 

TheCougar

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Then what constitutes “all of it”? I take the neck meat and the thicker portions of the brisket, but I have yet to carve out the rib meat and some of the smaller scraps around the ribs. Trying to quantify my rule of thumb, I’ll take anything that will yield meat after it gets hung and trimmed. There are some pieces that I don’t think will yield any meat for consumption. Anything thicker than my fingers will generally make it into the bags. Am I wasting meat or is that a good rule of thumb? Also, I’d crotch-punch a dude for packing out the rack before the meat is on ice. The rack and the cape should be the last trip.
 
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It’s an ethical question like the OP states. The right answer, for me personally, is all of the meat that is edible. Most Western States have some type of “Waste of Game” laws with fines to punish those that don’t use a reasonable attempt to pack out the edible meat. I know California, Oregon, Montana, Utah, Colorado, Nevada, and New Mexico do. Most will be charged with a Class C Misdemeanor, but several States can charge an individual with a Felony and thousands of dollars in fines.

I guess it would come down to the individual Warden and a Judge to decide what was actually “reasonable” in the effort of processing the meat from the carcass. And maybe even what defines “edible” too. So again, for me personally, the answer is “all of it that’s edible”.

Game laws don’t define the cuts of meat or organs that are considered to be “edible” that I’ve seen. I also don’t know too many Wardens that are going to go and retrace your trek to retrieve a carcass as evidence unless there is a REALLY good reason to do it. So the laws are written to give an individual quite a bit of leeway in this regard. Leaving organs, neck meat, ribs, tongue, etc... are probably not going to get you into trouble. Leaving 1/3 of the edible tissue meat probably is. This is a great question posed by the OP and each of us has a responsibility to practice good stewardship and conservation in our own actions as well as teach others how we would ethically handle this situation. I love Rokslide and how we can share thoughts, ideas, scenarios, etc... Good luck to everyone this year as we enjoy what we truly love to do. We need to stick together - united - and defend our rights to hunt. All while setting a good example for future generations that will follow in our footsteps.
 
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TheCougar

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The right answer is all of the meat that is edible. Most Western States have some type of “Waste of Game” laws with fines to punish those that don’t use a reasonable attempt to pack out the edible meat. I know California, Oregon, Montana, Utah, Colorado, Nevada, and New Mexico do. Most will be charged with a Class C Misdemeanor, but several States can charge an individual with a Felony and thousands of dollars in fines.

I guess it would come down to the individual Warden and a Judge to decide what was actually “reasonable” in the effort of processing the meat from the carcass. And maybe even what defines “edible” too. So again, the answer is “all of it”.

I agree in theory, but perhaps not in execution. There is no such thing as “all of it”... at some point, everyone of us will look at a piece of meat and decide that is too small to count as “all of it”. Maybe it’s a piece the size of your thumbnail, but at some point we all stop cutting and there is still meat on the carcass, even if it’s very little. With the exception of maybe Alaska, I don’t think leaving rib meat (specifically meat between the ribs) is considered waste. I’m genuinely interested in the criteria that others use to determine when they stop cutting. I agree with your edible meat comment - but I caveat that with “post-processing”, meaning it has to be big enough to render edible meat when processing. Hence, the ROT for a piece of meat larger than my fingers.
 

spaniel

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The correct answer is "all of it". Anything that can reasonably be removed. This includes neck meat and rib meat. For those claiming 300lbs from a mature 6pt bull elk, kudos to you. I've shot a number of them and it's more like 200lbs. Not sure where the disconnect is.

Long and short of it is, don't pull the trigger if you don't have a plan to get it out. My first elk, we knew we could get horses, I shot it and carried the prime meat out the first day, sent in horses after to get the rest. Shot an archery elk in the Missouri Breaks of Montana in 85F weather, one of us went for ice while the other started humping meat, once we had ice both humped meat. It was ~4 miles from kill to truck but we got it all iced by nightfall.

I posted elsewhere on this forum but last year I took an elk in wilderness area. Looked good when I pulled the trigger, roughly 6-7 miles to the truck but 2 people. But my partner completely lost his sh!t. Refused to pack out any meat and became a liability to both of us. I packed out a full quarter on top of a 3-day pack (>100lbs). Which caused me to injure a knee on the way out. Partner was useless from there on. I was not physically capable of going in alone for the rest, and my horse connection was unavailable during the window the meat was good. So I lost the rest. I was extremely sick about the situation but I couldn't go in solo in serious grizz country with a bad knee. Lesson learned I'm not doing that type of hunt again without a vetted partner.

I've also been tested by WY Fish and Game over meat ruined by shot on antelope. We hunt an area which is public but rarely or never accessed by others because it requires a 2 mile hike in. So we easily shoot 2-3 opening morning. But now we keep a separate bag of shot damaged meat. So we debone everything, and if it isn't edible, it goes into the shot damaged bag. Because the first time we didn't and we caught hell for it though no ticket.

Edited to add- when I talk about rib meat it's the layers covering the ribs. On an antelope it's not much of anything, on a big deer it's interesting. On an elk it's a really significant amount of meat which is totally unethical to ignore.
 
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I agree in theory, but perhaps not in execution. There is no such thing as “all of it”... at some point, everyone of us will look at a piece of meat and decide that is too small to count as “all of it”. Maybe it’s a piece the size of your thumbnail, but at some point we all stop cutting and there is still meat on the carcass, even if it’s very little. With the exception of maybe Alaska, I don’t think leaving rib meat (specifically meat between the ribs) is considered waste. I’m genuinely interested in the criteria that others use to determine when they stop cutting. I agree with your edible meat comment - but I caveat that with “post-processing”, meaning it has to be big enough to render edible meat when processing. Hence, the ROT for a piece of meat larger than my fingers.

Good points. I was modifying my original post when you replied. I agree. Each of us needs to decide what is reasonable and what is edible - to us. Unless the game laws are written to be so specific that there is no factor of “interpretation” - we all get to decide. Thanks!
 
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