OTC coming to an end in COLORADO???

[orionthehunter1]

Utah's problem is SFW and all the tags they poached for their auctions

 

[CorbLand]

Utah's problem is SFW and all the tags they poached for their auctions

That is part of the problem.

 

[cnelk]

This will only work if they limit OTC tags. If the OTC are a draw but unlimited why would anyone put in for them first choice? You can put in a hard to draw unit that you have little to no chance of drawing as a first choice and OTC as a second. You get your PP and your OTC tag. I do it every year in MT and WY.

It has actually made the better units harder to draw because most everyone does the same thing.

This is what Colorado did years ago, before they started with the Pref Point hunt code.
I doubt they would go backwards

 

[TexasCub]

There is no way that what colorado is doing with unlimited OTC non-res tags available to every hunter in any state in the country is sustainable. Draw with caps, a reduction to OTC non-res tags, something has to be done. I’ve met so many colorado residents that have given up on elk hunting because the experience for lack of better words just plain SUCKS. I’ve also met a lot of colorado hunters that are now heading north to Montana or Wyoming because at least there the crowding is not as bad as here. This is insane when the state with the most elk make elk hunting such a circus and yet the harvest success rates don’t get any better and IMO aren’t even accurate. I talked to a resident bow hunter during season that had been camped at a particular trail head for almost 3 weeks. He said that 40-50 hunters archery and nuzzleloader had been through those trail heads in that time frame and not a single hunter had harvested an elk! They have got to get a hold of this mess and fix it and soon.

 

[MuleyFever]

I will state the same thing I state every time I hear that everything should be based on a draw system. Please, before you advocate for this take the time to look at Utah and see what will come of nearly every tag only being available via a draw system.

I don’t follow. Utah’s issue is not that the tags are on a draw. We don’t have the population or habitat CO does. Also, the tag auctions need to go. AZ elk hunting opportunities are better than Utahs IMO and it’s not because of OTC elk tags.

 

[CorbLand]

I don’t follow. Utah’s issue is not that the tags are on a draw. We don’t have the population or habitat CO does. Also, the tag auctions need to go. AZ elk hunting opportunities are better than Utahs IMO and it’s not because of OTC elk tags.

I am saying that when you kick nearly all your tags to a draw system that over time point creep starts to take hold and it takes longer and longer for someone to draw a tag. While habitat and the auction tags play a role, that doesn't take away from the fact that kicking nearly all the general season tags to a draw has not helped the way that everyone thinks it does and it is taking longer and longer to draw tags in Utah. While it sounds great point creep takes hold and it doesn't become easier.

I have never lived or hunted in Colorado so I try not to insert my opinion on what should be done. All I am asking is that people be educated on what an all draw system looks like and the affects it has.

 

[TexasCub]

I don’t follow. Utah’s issue is not that the tags are on a draw. We don’t have the population or habitat CO does. Also, the tag auctions need to go. AZ elk hunting opportunities are better than Utahs IMO and it’s not because of OTC elk tags.

That’s correct. Actual elk habitat in Utah is a fragment of the elk habitat in Colorado. So many elk hunters and only so much elk habitat is why it’s so hard to get tags in Utah. I have family in Utah and some of them have 20+ pref points and still can’t draw units they want to hunt.

 

[realunlucky]

That’s correct. Actual elk habitat in Utah is a fragment of the elk habitat in Colorado. So many elk hunters and only so much elk habitat is why it’s so hard to get tags in Utah. I have family in Utah and some of them have 20+ pref points and still can’t draw units they want to hunt.

Utah spends more than more on habitat improvement than another state in this country. Habitat isn't the issue our elk herd is above objective. Utah is managed for quality and that reduces opportunity period. The only voice that was heard was those of land owners selling tags and people benefitting from auction tags. The system is broken but those with half a lifetime of waiting are still optimistic they draw someday and push back change. Times are changing and the majority is realizing it's not worth a lifetime of waiting for a single elk hunt in Utah.

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[realunlucky]

More people will equal less opportunity t

 

[TheHardWay]

Oh boy, here we go again with the durangoherald. Hunters killed them all and lions, bears and coyotes have lost their taste for elk calves. We read it

Yeah that article is a joke. Can CPW seriously not correlate the huge increase in bear numbers to a decrease in elk calves. Not to mention our joke of lion quotas we have down here.

Haha, yeah, the DH is pretty much a joke. I definitely don't buy into the CPW statement that predators are not part of the problem Are you kidding me? But by all means, lets introduce wolves to a declining population!

 

[MuleyFever]

Utah has 1/4 the elk CO does. You just cannot compare the 2.

 

[CorbLand]

Utah has 1/4 the elk CO does. You just cannot compare the 2.

You can compare a like system though. I really dont care what Colorado does. Just want to make sure that people understand the implications that come along with an all draw system. Making everything a draw in Utah did not have the changes that everyone thinks that it does. Utah went to an all draw system, what 30 years ago? It still hasnt helped the population numbers. Sure quality sky rocketed but I dont enjoy waiting 6 years to have the shot at killing a 300" bull.

 

[MuleyFever]

But that’s because Utah wants to manage for a high age class of bulls. UT deer is a draw and works fine. CO deer is a draw and works great. Isn’t WY and MT all draw for elk? They have good systems. Sure you may see some slight point creep in areas but you can still have a quality hunt quite often in other states that require a draw tag. The system in UT sucks by design (for opportunity) and is worsened by the elk population. I don’t see CO having the same issues.

 

[orionthehunter1]

I wouldn't mind a system like wyomings where residents still have otc opportunites, draw areas, and all non residents are on a draw.

 

[realunlucky]

Not sure that would solve your problem either. Wyoming works because they only have a few residents

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[cnelk]

You want 'quality' - you wont have 'quantity'

You want 'quantity"? - you wont have 'quality'


Choose your poison

 

[orionthehunter1]

Not sure that would solve your problem either. Wyoming works because they only have a few residents

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It could if they made residents choose between an otc tag or points, taking away the chance to do both like we have now. So you either get a point, draw a tag, or hunt otc. This might also alleviate some point creep.

 

[realunlucky]

It could if they made residents choose between an otc tag or points, taking away the chance to do both like we have now. So you either get a point, draw a tag, or hunt otc. This might also alleviate some point creep.

How is that similar to Wyoming? Residents don't have points there.

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[CorbLand]

It could if they made residents choose between an otc tag or points, taking away the chance to do both like we have now. So you either get a point, draw a tag, or hunt otc. This might also alleviate some point creep.

It might help but generally what adds to point creep is people sitting on the sidelines buying points then jumping in to play. Bottom line is this, every state that has a point system has been trying to combat point creep and no one has come up with a good solution. Point creep is inevitable when you have a point system and putting more tags under that system will make those tags suffer the same down fall.

 

[5MilesBack]

bull quality is dropping

Completely disagree with this statement. I've been hunting CO since 1980, and you have a better chance today at trophy quality bulls across the entire western half of the state than at any other time since 1980. Bull quality has been excellent compared to the past.