OTC coming to an end in COLORADO???

[5MilesBack]

It wouldnt take much to put in place mandatory harvest reporting. Ive been saying that for years

Ya, but mandatory reporting isn't going to do squat if they don't have a realistic grasp on the populations to start with.

 

[Jimss]

I agree with orionhunter1 as well! It's currently impossible for the CPW to manage the elk population and hunting pressure in current OTC elk units.

Currently only a fraction of all Colo elk units are limited. Just because the CPW goes to all draw elk doesn't necessarily mean that it will take years to draw tags. Conversely, all tags would be a draw and hunters would be required to use rather than build pref pts with their first choice unit. Currently the few limited elk units that exist in Colo have been point creeping for years.

If you take a look at Colo muledeer which converted to all draw many years ago you'll notice that there are excellent deer options that can be drawn every year. There were actually some good deer options to draw as 2nd choice or leftover this year. All deer applicants are distributed over a large chunk of units and hunters burn rather than build pts! To top it all off, the CPW can actually manage Colo muledeer! If you take a look at the current B&C muledeer listings...Colo rocks! Colo offers world class muledeer in a wide range of units spread across the state! All draw deer in Colo has been a success story and the same could hold true with elk if they hexed OTC tags and went to all draw!

Also, if Colo converted to all draw elk doesn't mean there are fewer tags. The CPW could finally manage the elk population and hunter numbers individually in all units. They could actually offer more or fewer tags accordingly.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

WV Mountaineer and how long do you think it will last with an unlimited number of tags? Again it is not about killing elk plenty of guys commenting on here, myself included that notch plenty of tags. The concern is the dwindling number of elk, I mean you know it is noticeable when CPW actually admits there is an issue publicly. Yes, bears, drought, dwindling winter range all play a toll, but until CPW can actually manage units and get a true grasp of hunter numbers and harvest per unit then nothing will get better. I feel the only way they can truly manage on a unit to unit basis is by making it all a draw because right now they have no clue. For instance I have 7 different OTC units within an hour of my house sometimes I hunt one, sometimes 2 or more and I'm not the only one so how can CPW keep an accurate count on how much pressure a unit is getting with this happening, not to mention I haven't been contacted for a survey in years so how accurate are the harvest stats? I also don't see why we can't go to some type of mandatory harvest reporting like New Mexico its all online and takes a few minutes, also if you don't fill it out you are ineligible to apply the next year.

I never said there weren’t plenty killing elk. I said just the opposite. Get your emotions out of your reasoning and pay attention to the problem. It isn’t NR hunters. It a whole facet of newly empowered public land users and a HUGE increase in predator numbers. I’m tired of hunters always getting the short end of the stick. Why not address the real problems first. If that doesn’t help, then cut numbers. But, with so many resident hunters whining about a non issue, that’s not likely to happen.


I understand your frustrations with harvest stats and such. I don’t know how the propose hat they do. It seems halfhearted and inaacurate at the least. All I’m really saying is the only thing stopping CO from turning into the next California is the revenue NR hunters generate. It’s become too liberal to say it any other way. You’ve already lost battles to this problem. You will loose even more if the state makes rules to limit NR participation. It’s the NR hunters you seem to hold a grudge against protecting what you have

 

[TheHardWay]

not to mention I haven't been contacted for a survey in years so how accurate are the harvest stats? I also don't see why we can't go to some type of mandatory harvest reporting like New Mexico its all online and takes a few minutes, also if you don't fill it out you are ineligible to apply the next year.

Are your contacts up to date on the CPW database? Whether its been via email or phone call, I've been contacted every year for at least the last 5 years with harvest surveys for deer, elk and bear. Just yesterday they called me about this year's deer hunt.
I agree that a mandatory harvest report is not a bad idea. Like New Mexico, Oregon also has this system in place.

 

[orionthehunter1]

I'm not solely blaming non residents for anything don't get riled up. At some point everyone needs to be limited there are just too many people out there anymore, it is what it is. Yeah they lowered nonresident bear tag prices for next year, great that was only 5 years too late. They could do all sorts of things, but none of it will matter until they actually do real herd counts and can manage the elk on a unit to unit basis like deer. I also think a hard cap on non residents should take effect like other western states.

 

[Jimss]

WV Mountaineer, you are absolutely right about hunters generally getting the short end of the stick! Although it's impossible for the CPW to manage elk and hunter numbers in OTC units predators, poor range condition, loss of winter range, etc are all contributors to poor calf crops and fewer healthy elk in the field. It obviously takes $ for these improvement projects.

 

[orionthehunter1]

Are your contacts up to date on the CPW database? Whether its been via email or phone call, I've been contacted every year for at least the last 5 years with harvest surveys for deer, elk and bear. Just yesterday they called me about this year's deer hunt.
I agree that a mandatory harvest report is not a bad idea. Like New Mexico, Oregon also has this system in place.

Yeah they have all my current info on my profile not sure what is happening I used to get phone calls all the time back when they did them that way, but haven't gotten the emails. I've checked my junk folder and I get other emails from them. I even just got the postcard about the new mountain lion changes last night.

 

[tdhanses]

So I guess you don't believe their herd estimates for the state? Back in the 80's they used to say we had about 180k elk in Colorado, and we used to see a lot of elk every hunting season. These days they say there are around 280k elk in the state, a 55% increase in numbers, and we still see a bunch of elk every season. So where is the disconnect? I will agree that there are a lot more elk living on private land year round these days than in the past, but that can't take up the entire 100k extra elk they're estimating. Or do you think their estimating is just WAY off?

Seems odd that they managed the population for around that 180k mark for years, yet these days with all the development that has taken place, the elk have even less holding ground than they used to have..........while the state tries to keep a herd of around 280k. That doesn't add up.

I have noticed herd sizes have shrunk (not sure on numbers overall though) where I hunt in SW CO but finding elk is never a problem. Im not sure what it was like back in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s in CO but there are still a bunch of elk in CO. I used to see 5+ bears a day, now I’m lucky if I see 5 a year but the CPW really increased the available tags where I hunt for bear and I think it has helped.

Every year I run into people that don’t see elk and they have been hunting for a week or two, most of their problem is not knowing where to find the elk so when I hear people talk about not seeing elk or having a bad experience hunting OTC I really do believe it is because 1) they don’t know the area and 2) they don’t put in the work.

 

[ckleeves]

I agree with orionhunter1 as well! It's currently impossible for the CPW to manage the elk population and hunting pressure in current OTC elk units.

Currently only a fraction of all Colo elk units are limited. Just because the CPW goes to all draw elk doesn't necessarily mean that it will take years to draw tags. Conversely, all tags would be a draw and hunters would be required to use rather than build pref pts with their first choice unit. Currently the few limited elk units that exist in Colo have been point creeping for years.

If you take a look at Colo muledeer which converted to all draw many years ago you'll notice that there are excellent deer options that can be drawn every year. There were actually some good deer options to draw as 2nd choice or leftover this year. All deer applicants are distributed over a large chunk of units and hunters burn rather than build pts! To top it all off, the CPW can actually manage Colo muledeer! If you take a look at the current B&C muledeer listings...Colo rocks! Colo offers world class muledeer in a wide range of units spread across the state! All draw deer in Colo has been a success story and the same could hold true with elk if they hexed OTC tags and went to all draw!

Also, if Colo converted to all draw elk doesn't mean there are fewer tags. The CPW could finally manage the elk population and hunter numbers individually in all units. They could actually offer more or fewer tags accordingly.

X2. People have this concern that if elk go all draw it will suddenly take 10 years to get a tag. When deer went all draw it’s not like it started taking 10 points to draw a decent or even great deer tag. It would be no different then the current deer draw if elk went all draw and I don’t see to many people complaining about the quantity of Colorado deer tags or the quality of Colorado deer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tdhanses]

X2. People have this concern that if elk go all draw it will suddenly take 10 years to get a tag. When deer went all draw it’s not like it started taking 10 points to draw a decent or even great deer tag. It would be no different then the current deer draw if elk went all draw and I don’t see to many people complaining about the quantity of Colorado deer tags or the quality of Colorado deer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah I don’t see it, like you stated about deer, used to be OTC and now it is all draw, many good tags can be drawn with 0pts even as a NR.

Also on the 80/20 split someone mentioned earlier, I would be ok with this as not all units would even get enough residents to apply to meet the 80% and more tags would go to NR’s in those units but it would give first opportunity to residents.

 

[Riles1050]

Everyone needs to copy NM system. Seems the best to me.

 

[CorbLand]

X2. People have this concern that if elk go all draw it will suddenly take 10 years to get a tag. When deer went all draw it’s not like it started taking 10 points to draw a decent or even great deer tag. It would be no different then the current deer draw if elk went all draw and I don’t see to many people complaining about the quantity of Colorado deer tags or the quality of Colorado deer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Most people recognize that its not going to be instant but 10-15 years down the road, thats when it starts taking longer. I will try and find the study but there is one that studied States that went from non point systems to point systems. The first 7 years nothing changed. After 7 years point creep take hold and it gets worse by the year.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

I'm not solely blaming non residents for anything don't get riled up. At some point everyone needs to be limited there are just too many people out there anymore, it is what it is. Yeah they lowered nonresident bear tag prices for next year, great that was only 5 years too late. They could do all sorts of things, but none of it will matter until they actually do real herd counts and can manage the elk on a unit to unit basis like deer. I also think a hard cap on non residents should take effect like other western states.

I’m not getting riled up man. I’m trying to say look at the big picture. Demand has not currently exceeded supply on our end as hunters in the state of CO. But, all hunters will loose if the residents of CO get this wrong. It has nothing to do with getting limited by science. Only getting it right so that isnt done innaprpruately

 

[tdhanses]

Most people recognize that its not going to be instant but 10-15 years down the road, thats when it starts taking longer. I will try and find the study but there is one that studied States that went from non point systems to point systems. The first 7 years nothing changed. After 7 years point creep take hold and it gets worse by the year.

But hasn’t the deer draw been going on close to that long now in CO? I haven’t seen much for point creep on deer where I hunt, actually in the unit I hunt it has gotten easier to get a deer tag.

 

[jmez]

Bottom line, there are still plenty of elk in Co. The game and fish doesn't care if 300 hunters are in one unit and 7 are in another. They care about the bottom line. They sell a lot of tags, it isn't going to change.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

[realunlucky]

But hasn’t the deer draw been going on close to that long now in CO? I haven’t seen much for point creep on deer where I hunt, actually in the unit I hunt it has gotten easier to get a deer tag.

Because it hasn't happened to you it doesn't happen?

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

[CorbLand]

But hasn’t the deer draw been going on close to that long now in CO? I haven’t seen much for point creep on deer where I hunt, actually in the unit I hunt it has gotten easier to get a deer tag.

If this is the case, you should have the next generation of kids putting in. Just wait.

the first generation benefits from point systems with most tags being on draw, its the generations after that pay for it.

 

[orionthehunter1]

There are a few units that have crept for non-residents, as well as, residents on the deer side, but like stated above there are great opportunities for both resident and non-residents to hunt quality deer every year with little to no points, leftovers, and also the re-issue list if your quick enough

 

[tdhanses]

Because it hasn't happened to you it doesn't happen?

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

Sure it’ll happen in the more popular units such as it does now but otc units won’t suddenly see a influx of people, I just don’t see it.

 

[MichaelO]

Mandatory check in via an online system like Indiana (my home state) is needed to determine harvest numbers. Without that informs how can you determine any limits on seasons?Am I understanding that CO doesn’t currently require harvest reporting?

Also if a state wants to manage with the goal of having a lot of animals then that’s not necessarily a bad thing. It provides lots of opportunity for new hunter recruitment as well as a windfall in license sales for resident and non Resident alike.

My two cents. Take it for what you paid for it.