Norma Brass Soft - false pressure indication?

[idig4au]

Just looking for a second opinion and sanity check.

I use Norma brass to reload for my custom 300 wsm. I'm using 64 grains of RL17 with 168 grain Barnes TTSX and Federal 215M primers. My rifle seems to likes to have the bullets seated .003" off the lands even though Barnes recommends 0.05" off the lands. The groups open up as the seating distance from the lands increases. I weigh my powder charges twice and I measure to the ogive for each bullet while I seating. I full size the brass.

I'm getting about 3125 fps avg velocity with effective spread at about 10 fps. No signs of pressure with this load other than ejector marks/blemish on the brass. I can barely feel them with my fingernail. Bolt opens easy. But the ejector marks are concerning from a potential pressure issue standpoint.

With load testing I know that at 64.5 grain of RL17 at 0.003" off the lands, I start getting a stiff bolt. So I backed off 1/2 a grain to my current load.

Here is the strange thing, I get ejector marks on the Norma brass regardless of powder charge, seating depth or number of firings on brass

Today, I worked up some loads to test with some once fired Barnes brass I had laying around. I loaded up two loads for testing.
Group A: 64 grains RL17 at 0.003" off the lands
Group B: 64 grains RL17 at 0.05" off the lands.

With the Barnes brass, I didn't get any ejector marks with the exception of 1 round with very faint ejector blemish in the 0.003" off the lands group. No issues with the bolt stiffness Velocities between the two groups consistent. Groups with the 0.003" off the lands tighter.

So is it safe to assume that what I am seeing with the ejector marks is just related to softer brass with Norma, is a false indicator and I don't have a pressure issues? Would be interested to get some second opinions.

Thanks

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

For whatever its worth I don't put much into light ejector marks, I get them on many guns/brass/etc. both reloads and commercial ammo. Heavily cratered primers, stiff bolt, velocities that are abnormally high, etc. I put more merit into. One thing with borderline or mildly hot loads (not saying yours are just a general comment) is the primer pocket life often sucks, they get stretched out.

 

[wind gypsy]

So is it safe to assume that what I am seeing with the ejector marks is just related to softer brass with Norma, is a false indicator and I don't have a pressure issues? Would be interested to get some second opinions.

Thanks

It seems pretty normal to me to see ejector marks on Norma brass in my 300 WSM, 7 SAUM, and 300 Norma loads with normal if a bit on the high end of acceptable pressures. Based on the info you provided it seems you're running in that same realm (normal, maybe a bit on the warm side). Unless you have a really short barrel, the velocities indicate you're good too.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I haven't had any issues with my Norma brass in my 7 SAUM. It has been some good brass for me. I don't see ejector marks on mine, unless I do something wrong or load it really hot.

 

[hntnnut]

In my .270 I ran PMC for years had some cases with over 12 reloads on them finally got scared to reload them any more and put them n the scrap bucket. bought some Winchester and Norma brass to replace the PMC stuff. the Winny brass is doing well with 5 or 6 reloads on them. The Norma stuff on the other hand I had primers falling out on the second loading. My load is 140 gr. Hornady BTSP pushed by 54.5 grs of IMR4831 and a win LRP.


Richard

 

[idig4au]

thanks for the feedback...I have no doubt I am running on the hotter side of the loads, but that is where I am finding the best accuracy node. Given that I'm not seeing either other pressure indicators, and only the normal brass is showing faint ejector marks, I'll just run with it

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

In my .270 I ran PMC for years had some cases with over 12 reloads on them finally got scared to reload them any more and put them n the scrap bucket. bought some Winchester and Norma brass to replace the PMC stuff. the Winny brass is doing well with 5 or 6 reloads on them. The Norma stuff on the other hand I had primers falling out on the second loading. My load is 140 gr. Hornady BTSP pushed by 54.5 grs of IMR4831 and a win LRP.


Richard

Did you adjust/verify the velocity of the load when switching brass? Internal case capacity between brass brands can differ which means the pressure will differ when using the same powder charge, if you didn't make the adjustments to maintain the same velocity you may have just loaded the norma brass hot. And/or it could just be soft, just flagging the powder charge issue based on the wording of your post which didn't indicate that was taken into account (you may have and just didn't mention it).

 

[TauPhi111]

I have been running Norma brass in my 260 AI and I get ejector swipes, but that was after I changed out the ejector too. I do think it is softer than other brands. Some of the primer pockets seem to be getting a little loose too. It is great brass as far as precision goes, but as far as durability I find it lacking. I have a case of Lapua brass I need to fire form and I'm hoping it'll prove to be much more durable

 

[choovhntr]

I get them with my 300 win mag as well. Drove me nuts for a while thinking I was doing something wrong. I dropped powder charge as much as 4 gr. And still got them but my velocities were very slow. I ended up just loading to what the rifle liked as long as bolt lift was good and velocities were close to what they should be. I have noticed the Norma brass has more case capacity than Winchester. Max load in Norma was right around 76.2 gr of h1000 while it was right around 74ish in the Winchester brass. Pretty big difference so be careful when switching cases.

 

[hntnnut]

Did you adjust/verify the velocity of the load when switching brass? Internal case capacity between brass brands can differ which means the pressure will differ when using the same powder charge, if you didn't make the adjustments to maintain the same velocity you may have just loaded the norma brass hot. And/or it could just be soft, just flagging the powder charge issue based on the wording of your post which didn't indicate that was taken into account (you may have and just didn't mention it).

It isn't a very hot load so it never really occurred to me. When I get a chance I'll go back and revisit it as I really liked the brass.


Richard