Cooper backcountry rifle vs kimbers rain ascent

[BravoFoxtrot]

I have a M92 in 300 win. Been messing with the 215 bergers and 212 eldx bullets and h1000 without too much luck. Pretty frustrated with it. I ran through a bunch of loads prior to the season starting and settled with one that shot 2 moa stringing up and down with the occasional flier to make the group 3 moa max. At least it's up and down and not left and right to compound with wind!

The really frustrating part is that the first three shot group I shot with it after getting a new trigger put in it was .3 moa. Thought I was golden and was ecstatic. The next ~7 shot group I shot opened up to ~3", but you could still see the awesome tight grouping where they randomly connected.

I ran through the gamut of checking everything I could think of without improving results. Check out this thread if you're interested (pics on snipers hide):
Cooper Model 92 Load Development
Cooper Model 92 Load Development | Sniper's Hide Forum

My buddy is a multi time national champion long range shooter. I'm going to have him reload for it and shoot the gun, just to take me out of the equation. If that fails, I'll be trying ~180 grain and eventually 168 grain bullets. Cooper said that the 200+ grain bullets are too heavy for the thin barrel.

Another thing to consider when purchasing the M92 is that the brake makes it bark pretty loud. I feel like I'm going deaf even with doubling up on plugs and quality ear muffs. Considering a suppressor or taking the brake off and just shooting 168 grain bullets with the gun, but that defeats the ballistic advantage of shooting a 300 win.

Let me know if you find a load that it likes - I'd like to give it a whirl.

One thing I've definitely learned is that 3 shot groups don't mean anything.

Yep. That sums up my Cooper experience in a nutshell (4 rifles). Lowly 5 shot groups were never near 1/2 MOA on any of them. That applies to most rifles. I’m not saying 1.5 MOA is a bad place to be, but in my experience few rifles are true sub-MOA. Some recent examples for me of true sub-MOA rifles for me (10 shot minimum) are AI AT, AO TMR, three Tikka CTR’s, and a Remington 700 with a Bartlein barrel. Most don’t make the cut. I think anyone can make a 2 MOA rifle look like a 1/2 MOA rifle with a 3 shot group and enough attempts.

Caveat: For most applications, I believe sub 1.5 MOA is more than enough to get the job done.

 

[Matt W.]

Cooper told me the .300WM versions of the M92 shoot better groups with bullets in the 168gr range. For some reason those .300WMs don't like the larger bullets.

 

[Tekla]

If it makes a difference I have sent my kimber 280 AI back to them three times. I’ve had it two years and Still haven’t been able to use it. Just shot it the other day after getting it back the third time and the very first bullet stuck in the chamber. Save yourself the heart ache. Get yourself a really nice cooper.

 

[JohnnyR]

Luke did you ever get that review up? If you did I cant seem to find it. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the cooper now that you've had it awhile. I'm eyeballing one in .300WM. Thanks!

I am also considering same rifle and am interested in hearing reports of reliability, QC from the factory, etc. Lack of suitability for heavier rounds would be a show-stopper for me, however.

By the way, I have a buddy that lives in Elizabeth CO and belongs to a long range gun club nearby. He's looking at Coopers, too...

 

[elkguide]

I have several Kimber rifles in the Montana and a Cooper Model 56. While I do really like the Kimbers a lot, if I had to pick between the two it would definitely be the Cooper.

 

[ChadS]

After speaking with some on here with experience, I think I have bumped the Cooper from the list. The heavy bullet problems shouldnt be an issue with a gun at a 3k price point. For 1k less money and a fuzz more weight the Christensen Ridgeline and the Bergara Premier Mountain come back into play, and I think I will probably end up choosing one of those two.

 

[JohnnyR]

- - - Updated - - -

I have several Kimber rifles in the Montana and a Cooper Model 56. While I do really like the Kimbers a lot, if I had to pick between the two it would definitely be the Cooper.

Ever have feed issues with the Kimbers? Have read reports of such (American Rifleman | The Kimber Rifle Story )

- - - Updated - - -

After speaking with some on here with experience, I think I have bumped the Cooper from the list. The heavy bullet problems shouldnt be an issue with a gun at a 3k price point. For 1k less money and a fuzz more weight the Christensen Ridgeline and the Bergara Premier Mountain come back into play, and I think I will probably end up choosing one of those two.

Hmm... similar thoughts here. We're traveling for the next month, but I will revisit this in late January. I plan to call Cooper and discuss the 180gr 300WM accuracy in their experiences.

I'm also considering a 30-06 version.

 

[FURMAN]

I’ve owned or own rifles from both. I don’t see any comparison in quality. The Cooper is far better in my opinion. I think the components in the Kimber are ok but the details go to the Cooper. Then if you bring in customer service the gap grows larger.


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[elkguide]

- - - Updated - - -



Ever have feed issues with the Kimbers? Have read reports of such (American Rifleman | The Kimber Rifle Story )

- - - Updated - - -



Hmm... similar thoughts here. We're traveling for the next month, but I will revisit this in late January. I plan to call Cooper and discuss the 180gr 300WM accuracy in their experiences.

I'm also considering a 30-06 version.

I've never experienced feeding problems with any of the Kimbers that I have had. (I have 3 Montanas currently and 2 are WSM's)

As to what the Cooper rifles will shoot. I don't know about the Back Country but the Model 56 that I have has a 26" barrel and with the 175 grain Berger VLD's I am consistently shooting 1/2" groups at 100 yards, 1" groups at 200 yards and I just shot a 3 shot group at 300 yards that measured 7/8" and I do not shoot that well anymore!

 

[Sako76]

I got to fondle a Cooper Back Country at Euro-Optic yesterday in 7mm Remington Magnum, it felt great. I own a Cooper 52 Excaliber in 30-06 and it is heavy, clubby and I can't duplicate the one hole target that came with it, the magazine rattle drives me crazy, the 92's mag didn't rattle. The rifle does shoot under an inch. I own a Kimber Montana in 7-08, it shoots bugholes with Barnes Vortex 120 grain TTSX's. I left Euro-Optics with a Christensen Arms Summit Thumbhole Carbon Fiber in 270 WSM. Hope this helps.

 

[justin davis]

I don’t think you can compare the two. My step dad has a cooper 22-250 and a .270. They shoot lights out. Easy .5 Moa or less.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I have owned 3 coopers, and they all shoot lights out. The 300 win mag has a 1:10 twist, 26", and shoots 165s, 180s, and 200s 1/2 inch. I have not tried anything over 200

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[C Bow]

May I ask how many rounds you shoot per year

 

[elkguide]

I bought my Cooper in August and from my records I have only shot 184 rounds through it. I have put 458 rounds through 2 Montanas and with other rifles it looks like I have only shot about 1500 rounds in that time. Pretty slow year for shooting. Had a very good elk tag in Idaho and had to spend a bunch of my free time hiking to get ready for those hills. I hate it when work gets in the way of life.

 

[JohnnyR]

I have owned 3 coopers, and they all shoot lights out. The 300 win mag has a 1:10 twist, 26", and shoots 165s, 180s, and 200s 1/2 inch. I have not tried anything over 200

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What rifle models?

Specific to the Model 92 - one of Cooper’s gunsmiths wrote me an email this week stating that in their and some of their customers’ experiences, the 92 in 300WM favors bullets in the 150-180 range, and that generally “we see that the M92s do not favor well with a very heavy for caliber bullet.”
There is no doubt that Cooper builds good rifles. I think that the shorter, fluted barrel of the 92 may not be optimal for the heavier bullets.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I have owned 3 coopers, and they all shoot lights out. The 300 win mag has a 1:10 twist, 26", and shoots 165s, 180s, and 200s 1/2 inch. I have not tried anything over 200

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE
What rifle models?

Specific to the Model 92 - one of Cooper’s gunsmiths wrote me an email this week stating that in their and some of their customers’ experiences, the 92 in 300WM favors bullets in the 150-180 range, and that generally “we see that the M92s do not favor well with a very heavy for caliber bullet.”
There is no doubt that Cooper builds good rifles. I think that the shorter, fluted barrel of the 92 may not be optimal for the heavier bullets.

The 300 is a 52 Excaliber. The target card that came with it was shot with 168s

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[ChadS]

I believe I have settled on the Tikka T3x Superlite. At a fraction of the cost and 4oz heavier, I cant come up with a justifiable reason to buy the Cooper at 3k. The Tikka's 1:11 twist made me hesitate and I worried it may not handle bullets over 180 grains very well. But then Cooper themselves and a lot of experience says the Backcountry may not shoot rounds much heavier than 180 either. Pretty sure I can get about whatever I need done with 180 grain .300WM round anyway. I think I'm going to step off the roller coaster now and buy the Tikka T3x Superlite and send it.

 

[6mm Remington]

I have been messing around with a Cooper M92 Backcountry in 300wm. Luke and I both received ours about the same time, but I was consumed with some archery stuff earlier this year that took a ton of my time. I have tried a few loads and haven't really found one I like. So far the best group is 1 MOA and is a Barnes 168gr factory ammo. I'd like to get a heavier load to work. Its my winter project.

With that said it is one of the prettiest rifles I have handled. The trigger is pure joy, everyone who pulls it just smiles. At 92ozs vs 103ozs in the Kimber (factory weight claims) and with a removable magazine its a hard rifle not to like! I topped mine with a Leupold VX6 scope via CameraLand NY and the total package is one heck of a combo.

All I need now is to work out a good load. Really hoping to get the Hornady 212gr ELD-Xs bullets to work for me.

Matt you can contact Cooper Arms directly and talk to the guy who does the rifle testing and loading. They have one or two loads for each caliber that they have found are consistently accurate in all or most of the rifles they build. They will provide you with the bullet, brass, primer, and powder that they use. Might give you a good start on where to begin.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I believe I have settled on the Tikka T3x Superlite. At a fraction of the cost and 4oz heavier, I cant come up with a justifiable reason to buy the Cooper at 3k. The Tikka's 1:11 twist made me hesitate and I worried it may not handle bullets over 180 grains very well. But then Cooper themselves and a lot of experience says the Backcountry may not shoot rounds much heavier than 180 either. Pretty sure I can get about whatever I need done with 180 grain .300WM round anyway. I think I'm going to step off the roller coaster now and buy the Tikka T3x Superlite and send it.

Sounds like you have your mind made up, and Tikka's have a great reputation. One angle you might consider.....I know alot of folks say they wouldn't spend more than X on a rifle, but they have 10+ Browning, Ruger, Winchester, Tikka, Savage, etc......there's nothing wrong with any of those, and I am all for having a bunch of guns, but if you want a Cooper or some other higher end rifle.....consider treating yourself and having fewer rifles that are nicer. You can only use one at a time anyway...

 

[ChadS]

Sounds like you have your mind made up, and Tikka's have a great reputation. One angle you might consider.....I know alot of folks say they wouldn't spend more than X on a rifle, but they have 10+ Browning, Ruger, Winchester, Tikka, Savage, etc......there's nothing wrong with any of those, and I am all for having a bunch of guns, but if you want a Cooper or some other higher end rifle.....consider treating yourself and having fewer rifles that are nicer. You can only use one at a time anyway...

I really dont have my mind made up haha. I want that Cooper. Just dont know if I can justify it.

I actually do not own a hunting rifle. I'm a bowhunter and a backpack guy. I should have one, and I'm not going back to Alaska without my own rifle. Being that I will be hunting with my bow 98% of the time, I want my rifle to be light when I'm lugging everything around. That's how I ended up on this lightweight rifle fiasco.

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