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  1. #1
    Senior Member HellsCanyon's Avatar
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    Scarpa Kinesis Pro... but less stiff?

    After 3 seasons the goretex on my Scarpa Kinesis Pro's has finally worn out. Boots finally started leaking this year and for the first time I've managed to wear the tread down extremely flat before the stitching or rand has pulled away and worn out. Fantastic construction on these boots. I've worn Hanwags and these Scarpas the last 5 years and never gotten a blister. Swore I wouldn't go away from the Scarpas as they fit my foot perfectly. However I'm wanting a less stiff sole on my next boot. I've used these on extended 3-5 day hike through trips and they flat out suck. Long over-trail hikes seems to limit the ability of my foot's natural gait and while I get zero blisters or hot spots, my feet are tired and a bit tender. Any more trips like these and I'll be buying a set of hiking shoes as I don't need much support and the freedom of movement has my feet much more happy.

    Is there a boot model out there that has similar ankle support, but a less stiff sole? I'm hoping to get 2 seasons out of whatever boot I end up with. In my experience there's been a direct relationship between boot stiffness and longevity.

    Has anybody experienced the Scarpa Zodiac Plus or the R-Evolution?

    I'd try the Salomon Quest 4D's as that's more of the style of boot I'm looking for but Salomon doesn't fit my foot style well. Thanks in advance.

    Mike
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  2. #2
    Senior Member flinginairos's Avatar
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    In for info as well. I have the same boots and I do like them a lot, but after many hunts this year I think they are just too stiff for me. I have experienced pretty much the same as you. I don't really get hot spots but after several miles in them i'm wore out. The waterproofing and construction are top notch, just very very stiff.

  3. #3
    Senior Member HellsCanyon's Avatar
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    Well Iíll have some good info next week. Amazon Prime ďwardrobeĒ has 3 models coming in next week to try before I buy with a 7 day trial period. Scarpa Kinesis Pro... but less stiff?

    And then I ordered a 4th on Prime cause, well, free returns.

    Iíve got the Kailash plus GTX, the R-evolution GTX, the R-evolution plus GTX, and the Kailash Trek Gtx coming in. I wasnít able to find the Zodiac plus or SL Active discounted for Cyber Monday. If none of these work illl return them and order those two as well.

    Also stepping down from my previous 46EU size to the 45.5 or 11.5-12 M sizing which I hope works better. I always had just a slight extra amount of room in the toe box on my Kinesisí. Iíll be sure and keep the thread updated when I receive the boots next week.

    Mike


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  4. #4
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    I have Kinesis and love the fit, I love the stiffness in the hills, but was also looking for something a little less stiff for everyday wear.

    The Kinesis is made with the BD last, Scarpa used to make another model with the BD last called the Zanskar, the Zanskar is supposed to have a much more flexible sole, I ordered a pair off STP last week for pretty cheap. I'll try to post what I think of them once I get them later this week.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by HellsCanyon View Post
    Well Iíll have some good info next week. Amazon Prime ďwardrobeĒ has 3 models coming in next week to try before I buy with a 7 day trial period. Scarpa Kinesis Pro... but less stiff?

    And then I ordered a 4th on Prime cause, well, free returns.

    Iíve got the Kailash plus GTX, the R-evolution GTX, the R-evolution plus GTX, and the Kailash Trek Gtx coming in. I wasnít able to find the Zodiac plus or SL Active discounted for Cyber Monday. If none of these work illl return them and order those two as well.

    Also stepping down from my previous 46EU size to the 45.5 or 11.5-12 M sizing which I hope works better. I always had just a slight extra amount of room in the toe box on my Kinesisí. Iíll be sure and keep the thread updated when I receive the boots next week.

    Mike


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    I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the fit of the Kailash plus vs the Kinesis.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by HellsCanyon View Post
    Well Iíll have some good info next week. Amazon Prime ďwardrobeĒ has 3 models coming in next week to try before I buy with a 7 day trial period. Scarpa Kinesis Pro... but less stiff?

    And then I ordered a 4th on Prime cause, well, free returns.

    Iíve got the Kailash plus GTX, the R-evolution GTX, the R-evolution plus GTX, and the Kailash Trek Gtx coming in. I wasnít able to find the Zodiac plus or SL Active discounted for Cyber Monday. If none of these work illl return them and order those two as well.

    Also stepping down from my previous 46EU size to the 45.5 or 11.5-12 M sizing which I hope works better. I always had just a slight extra amount of room in the toe box on my Kinesisí. Iíll be sure and keep the thread updated when I receive the boots next week.

    Mike


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    All of those look great. I have the kinesis pro as well and thought the 46EU was a bit roomy, but I wanted that because my toes go numb and my feet get cold super fast. I think the Kailash Plus would be a good compromise between rugged expedition and day hunts. Let me know what you think. I haven't put the Kinesis Pros through their paces because we recently moved to Japan and I bought them after last season. I have run Asolo and Salomons before and always in search of the perfect boot.

  7. #7
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    I got the Scarpa Zanskars last night and they less stiff than the kinesis for sure, but for me they seem a little narrower overall and I'll be sending them back

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  9. #8
    Senior Member HellsCanyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickstone View Post
    I got the Scarpa Zanskars last night and they less stiff than the kinesis for sure, but for me they seem a little narrower overall and I'll be sending them back
    Good to know, do they offer them in a wider width?

    Mike
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  10. #9
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    I bought both the kinesis and zodiac plus this summer. Havenít even used the kinesis as I like the zodiac plus that much. They are a beefy trail shoe with a more supportive sole in my mind. I can carry heavy loads (for me) with no issues.


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  12. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by HellsCanyon View Post
    Good to know, do they offer them in a wider width?

    Mike
    I dont think Scarpa offers a wide width anymore. They used to with the Kailash which I bought years ago. When I looked at getting a new pair, I didn't see a wide option anymore so I contacted them. No longer offered....the BD last i was told is their "widest" fit.

  13. #11
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    I have the opposite problem. I thought the kinesis was great when they were newer. A year on them and they just don't feel stiff enough anymore. I really notice it with a heavy pack.

  14. #12
    Senior Member HellsCanyon's Avatar
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    Received the Kailash GTX yesterday.
    The width seems the same as my previous set of Kinesis Proís.

    Initial impression is positive, I can flex the soles by hand (it takes some force) which is hard to do with the Kinesis. These have plastic liners inside metal eyelets on the laces that while effective and make tightening the laces very easy and smooth, come across and a cost cutting measure (not unexpected on a suede/cordura constructed boot). Compared to the ball bearing lace system on the Kinesis, this is my only complaint so far.

    There might be a tight spot on my left heel, but hard to tell walking around the house and climbing stairs. Zero heel slippage, and my foot feels as locked in as before. Amble ankle support, I donít think Iíd have an issue packing heavy loads with this boot.

    Looking forward to the Kailash plus arriving today along with a few other pairs!


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  15. #13
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    Looks like they are offering the kailash in WIDE widths again....

  16. #14
    Senior Member HellsCanyon's Avatar
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    Got the other boots in today. Spent 12 hours in the shop and ground up 85 lbs of burger afterwards. Barely had time to pull them out of the box and give them a once over and a quick pull on. I can tell you they all fit proper, widths seem consistent, and Iím going to have a helluva time picking the winner.... more to come.

    Mike


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  17. #15
    Senior Member HellsCanyon's Avatar
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    Okay, quick info for anybody still listening/interested...

    The Kailash boots are the least stiff/supportive of the three models (Kailash, R-Evolution, and Kinesis Pro). The trek model with suede leather has a more mesh type tongue material and isn't near as comfortable as the Kailash Pro all leather model. The plus model has a leather tongue similar to the Kinesis Pro, really comfortable. I'm not a huge fan of the lace system on the Kailash however. It doesn't tighten up near the toe with the initial pull of the laces. Another note for the Kailash models is the toe rand ends right about where I'd expect where on the inside ball of my foot. These are what I'd call a very well built trail boot, I'd likely wear these for long light high mileage trips in the summer, but any off trail or heavy loads I'd think I'd like a little more ankle support and think I'd wear into the toe rand quickly.

    The Kailash Trek model weighs 25.7 oz per boot, size 45.5 EU (11.66 American).
    The Kailash Pro leather weighs 26.4 oz per boot, size 45.5 EU

    The R-Evolution is exactly what I'm looking for in the stiffness department. The sole is flexible enough to let me get a good feel for whats under my foot, and it's just tall enough to allow the lace system to really capture my ankle for good support. Perfect for me here. The Trek model has a toe rand that covers my major wear spots on the front and sides of my feet. It extends rearward about 1" more than the Kailash models.

    The R-Evolution plus is the exact same as the Trek model but is 100% leather with a full rubber rand.

    The R-Evolution trek weighs 26.8 oz per boot, size 12 US.
    The R-Evolution Plus weighs 28.2 oz per boot, size 12 US.

    I've just got to decide if I want to save $50 and run the Trek model with the suede leather construction, or go for the slightly heavier Plus model with full rand and smooth leather construction. I've never ran a suede leather boot before, and I'm curious on waterproofing it (or if it's even needed with the GTX). I don't expect more than 2-3 seasons out of a pair of boots due to the soles wearing flat and the goretex membrane eventually wearing thin and leaking no matter the construction.

    Anybody have any input on suede vs full grain leather construction? These boots will see rain and snow fairly often every fall and I never have a boot dryer available where/how I hunt.

    At this point I'm leaving towards the trek model, google reviews have shown zero issues with waterproofness of that particular model...

    Mike
    Last edited by HellsCanyon; 1 Week Ago at 06:41 PM.
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  18. #16
    Senior Member HellsCanyon's Avatar
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    Couple pics

    Different lacing styles between Kailash (left) and R-Evolution (right).


    Suede leather construction with partial rubber rand.


    Plus model with full rand and full grain leather.



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    Last edited by HellsCanyon; 1 Week Ago at 06:40 PM.
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  19. #17
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    I thought the R-Evolution Trek was suede, not nubuck leather. How much room is there in the toebox of the R-Evolution Plus?

  20. #18
    Senior Member HellsCanyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCH View Post
    I thought the R-Evolution Trek was suede, not nubuck leather. How much room is there in the toebox of the R-Evolution Plus?
    Youíre correct, edited post to proper terminology.

    Toe box seems identical to me across all of them and compared to my Kinesis. Plenty wide for my feet but I have slightly more narrow forefeet than average.

    Mike


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  21. #19
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    I wore out a pair of Kinesis Pros this spring (and actually replaced them with a new pair because I liked them so much) and got a pair of R evolution plus. I've been really impressed with the R-evolution. Much lighter, less stuff but still has good rigidity in the sole. Both the Kinesis and R-evolution Plus are fantastic boots. I see no reason for me to go with anything different. The R's have been my all around hiking and light trip or day hunts, and the Kinesis will be for bigger trips when I need a burlier boot

  22. #20
    Senior Member HellsCanyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by letrbuck View Post
    I wore out a pair of Kinesis Pros this spring (and actually replaced them with a new pair because I liked them so much) and got a pair of R evolution plus. I've been really impressed with the R-evolution. Much lighter, less stuff but still has good rigidity in the sole. Both the Kinesis and R-evolution Plus are fantastic boots. I see no reason for me to go with anything different. The R's have been my all around hiking and light trip or day hunts, and the Kinesis will be for bigger trips when I need a burlier boot
    Agreed.
    I decided to keep the R-evolution Trek because of that blend of stiffness. I donít anticipate getting more than 2 seasons from them so I went with the suede model instead of the plus model. I think the goretex is going to wear out before either the suede or full grain leather models. It only lasted 2 seasons in the Kinesis which is stiffer. For a sub $200 boot I donít think Iíll find a better option for my feet. Was nice to see the sizing consistent across the models as well.

    Mike


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