I found out some Shocking info about where Californias Deer Population may have gone

ceng

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I was out hunting with a buddy in some heavily timber harvested areas. He mentioned that he was invited on a forestry tour that our county puts on explaining different land management strategies and how it impacts the forest. They compared private timberland with Public etc. He mentioned that they have been spraying clear cuts with herbicide for the first 3-8 years to give the trees a head start. I hadn't heard this and thought wow that seems a little too far fetched. But after looking over several clear cuts I noticed a disturbing pattern of no deer feed in them, and even the edges had dead brush. Growing up I have always been taught that clear cuts provide feed for deer and edge habitat and they are great for the deer population. I know that this was once true, but now with the yearly application of herbicide to kill brush and forbs I am shocked. I feel betrayed and upset that our pristine forests are being managed with all the care of a Monsanto soy bean patch in Illinois. I can't believe I've been so naïve to not notice this as the deer population has dwindled at an alarming rate in California. I thought a big contributor was poor fire management. Little did I know that it was just an enormous loss in carrying capacity as all the deer feed is poisoned with herbicide every year. Does anyone else know about this? Am I reacting to emotionally to this? What the heck? I feel more and more disenfranchised with the state and even logging which I've appreciate for it's "sustainability" etc. Do other states allow this? Is there anything we can do about it?

Sorry for the Rant, this has just really got me riled up.
 

bsnedeker

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Is this happening on both private AND public land? If this is happening on public land I would be outraged. The BLM is supposed to manage for multiple use. If they are killing deer feed to help trees grow back faster it is obvious the only use they care about is loggging and that is not right.
 
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Do you know if this is taking place on public only? Private only?


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Azone

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Factor in the coyotes, lions, poachers and the drought we are still getting out of and drum roll please....were F@##%ED. On top of what the logging outfits are doing just think of how many thousands of gallons of herbicide and pesticide that all the dope growers poison are streams and mountains with each year. This place has been mis managed for so long its disgusting. The joy of democracy is the majority rules, and when the majority are a bunch of bleeding heart douchebags who think driving there Prius is saving the world for all the cute and cuddly little animals that Walt Disney educated them on it's enough to drive a sane person to the edge. I could take people through miles of public land devoid of life because of illegal activity whether it be from marijuana farms or all the poachers who shoot anything that walks out in front of them. I need to stop the rant before I go any futher....
 
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ceng

ceng

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I thought that it was mostly on private timber lands but just saw an article today that said the forest service is doing it on their land. I don't know how reliable the source was, but it just leaves me fuming. It seems like we worry about illegal pesticides being used, but maybe we ought to be worrying about the legal ones as well. It just makes me sick.
 

Btaylor

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I thought that it was mostly on private timber lands but just saw an article today that said the forest service is doing it on their land. I don't know how reliable the source was, but it just leaves me fuming. It seems like we worry about illegal pesticides being used, but maybe we ought to be worrying about the legal ones as well. It just makes me sick.

It takes a lot more man power and resources to manage ground well than it does to "manage" it efficiently.
 
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A lot of cuts are sprayed in WI. I've come across the little signs that they put up when they've recently sprayed, warning you against walking through the area. I've come across it several times on county land, but not on NF lands so far.

I've wondered if the herbicide is hazardous to people, what's the impact on deer and other animals that can't read?
 
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I live on a burn area and NEVER see deer out there . ALOT of bears though. I havnt heard of spraying before and also find it disturbing . I'll look more into it for sure.
 

Oregon

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Been going on a long time. Blacktail deer numbers continue to dwindle due to numerous things, spraying plays a big part.
Before spraying cuts, blacktail numbers on the Oregon coast were insane. Doe tags were almost guaranteed, and the last week of rifle deer season was either sex. That didn’t help, then they started spraying, then lion numbers exploded due to outlaw of dog hunting.
Forestry practices actually created the blacktail boom. Clear cutting originally gave us more blacktail than the days when Lewis and Clark found the pacific.
 
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this is happening extensively on SPI land and it is devastating to a lot of critters. It certainly impacts deer herds. They basically moonscape their clearcuts after cutting. a typical clear cut can be pretty beneficial to deer herds. the new growth of plants is amazing. that is up until you basically cover the entire area in roundup. As far as I am concerned SPI is about as responsible for our deer herds dwindling as any other single source of deer mortality.
The agency that manages private timber harvest is Calfire. They are responsible for administering timber harvest plans. They have basically signed off on the practice for a long time but they are likely going to get sued over it again based on endangered species act impacts to threatened frogs. The blanket spraying of that many chemicals has massive impacts to everything that lives downstream and with the listing of the yellow legged frog they are going to have to look at the impacts of the chemicals on special status species.
 
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I've been hearing of the timber companies spraying for a long time now. I think the dwindling numbers of blacktail are the result of a perfect storm of mismanagment, spraying clear cuts, a lack of lion season, too many bears, and the growing human population moving out into areas that were traditionally deer habitat. Unfortunately I dont see it getting much better.
 

Beendare

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There is no spraying within 50 miles of me....and the blacktail population has dwindled dramatically over the last 30 years.....

Before you start ringing your hands over the loggers.....I can tell you its ALWAYS a multi faceted answer. Very rarely its one thing.

Interesting corollary....as the mtn lion population has gone up [since the hunting ban on lions] the deer population has declined. It is a fact that deer are a mtn lions #1 food source afterall. Seems to indicate a relationship, eh?

Predators have overall exploded in CA....don't you think THAT would have a significant impact?


In my east bay area....you see very few deer out in the hills [ like zero-hills that i hike multiple times a week] but then when you get back into the areas around homes and such....bingo- the deer. So why do you think that is? Well of course the deer are seeking refuge and protection from predators......

Before you start blaming loggers which actually create habitat for deer by logging.........you might want to look at these liberal anti hunting groups and politicians....just a thought.
 
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logging used to be great for deer. The massive application of herbicides changed that dramatacally. I am not anti logger in any way. the best areas out there as far as I am concerned are old cuts and old burns. Killing off all the shrubs that come in after a logging operation changes all that.
 

Shrek

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The spraying of timberlands has a devastating impact on all the animals. Rayonier has been doing it on clearcuts AND mid growth timber in South Georgia. They will spray and kill everything that’s not a pine tree. They spray a couple of years after third row thinning usually. Without the bushy understory there’s no food for anything.
 
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logging used to be great for deer. The massive application of herbicides changed that dramatacally. I am not anti logger in any way. the best areas out there as far as I am concerned are old cuts and old burns. Killing off all the shrubs that come in after a logging operation changes all that.

yep, it really sucks because logging can be such a huge benefit, basically replacing fire. The benefits from fire and logging are the huge amounts of new growth that occur afterwards. nuking the place and then planting rows of one species of evergreen makes a forest that has about the same ecological value as walmart parking lot.
 

541hunter

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Herbicides has been used for decades. Just because people are starting to realize it now doesn't mean it's bad. Correlation is not causation. I hunt every year for blacktails in some of the most heavily managed tree farms, and not a year goes by that a deer tag doesn't get filled. I find it quite amusing that whenever people aren't seeing animals they have to find someone or something to blame other than their skills as a hunter. I hear it every year, " I didn't see a deer all season" " numbers aren't what they use to be" " damn all the predators". In forestry less round up is applied to a drive way by a homeowner than on one acre of timberland. Also it has no downstream effects. It is applied during dry weather and binds to the soil. It attacks a protein that is responsible for the photosynthesis process. A protein animals don't carry. Please stop spreading the this misinformation because you just now became aware.


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has any one thought of getting their venison tested?
I am just at that point. We worry about cowmeat but what of the chemicals ingested by the animals we pursue?
 
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