Worried about Montana’s future

[Ranger185]

Agreed with Wapiti and bsnedeker, it's vital that good folks are exposing our youth to the outdoors life in the right way. I live in Denver, by current necessity, and have my 6 yr old on the water and in the field as much as possible. He asked me the other day if he could go pheasant hunting with me, and I didn't hesitate to say 'absolutely!!!'. I never asked him, but he sees me with my hunting and fishing gear all of the time and most of my conversations revolve around the outdoors, regardless of the activity. I think it's my example that puts it in his head, and if I'm giving the right example, I know I'll be building something good in him for the future.

I heard a state trooper in MN say one time ..."of all the kids I've arrested, not one of them had a fishing license in his wallet..." Granted, that's a generality, but I think it speaks volumes to what the outdoor life can produce in a culture.

 

[tdhanses]

Yeah it is unfortunate and it concerns me as well. I moved here to hunt, fish and be left alone after getting out of the military. Having dealt with west coasters ideology for a long time I am not sure how to combat it because they seem to never be wiling to try understand it from anyone else's perspective (they're right you're wrong). Luckily the capitol is in Helena and not Bozeman or Missoula. I think because the universities tend to attract way more liberal leaning people now. Just look at a presidential election map by county. It is literally all red except for Missoula, Gallatin county and the reservations. I find it interesting that the policies that a lot of the west coasters voted for and wanted are the same ones causing them to leave the state in mass exodus so they can go somewhere that is affordable. Now with the ability to work remotely people can live in "pretty" areas and try to change the areas to the way they want them. I hope that this would never become a state issue but if it did then I guess I would pick up and move on to somewhere else. And if your moving to somewhere you should be moving there to be part of the culture not trying to change it.

I left MT almost 20 years ago, it was an issue then as well. Thing is seems like most people only stay for a few years and then leave but then more keep coming. It’s a disease that is slowly spreading across the west to larger metro areas but will slowly move to rural areas as well. Not sure anything can be done, when I left MT there was around 800k residents, that amounts to what 2% of the population totals for CA and WA. Hard to stop a million rats overtaking 100 squirrels.

 

[Kootenay Hunter]

It's happening everywhere sadly.

The urban populations continue to grow, then a few people get the romantic 'back to the land' ideas and move to the country for a few years, bring along their ideals and then push it upon those who live and breathe what the west is about.

The only way I can see positive change is to continue to promote the outdoors lifestyle and try to involve those who have no idea what it's about, have to evangelize!

You're probably never going to change an anti-hunter's mind, but you can ask questions to understand their points (right or wrong) and respectfully inform them of your point of view. Mutual respect is what's require. Unfortunately there is an increasing sentiment sweeping the world that if someone doesn't fall in line with your ideas they are an enemy.... sounds like communism to me!

 

[slowelk]

I'm 27, so I don't have a lot of history to speak of, but I have been a Montana resident for 22 of my 27 years.

With almost every hot-button issue, but this issue in particular, I have a hard time reconciling whether we feel this impact because the opinions are more pervasive, or if it's because everyone feels like they can be more vocal about their opinions in current times. Everyone has a pedestal to scream from now due to social media, and the radicals are the ones screaming, but in general, people are plainly more open about their opinions and feelings about everything these days.

I have faith that while more and more out of state folks move to MT, the values that the state was built on will continue to win out. I see this in the recent failing of the bill to ban trapping. Some may reference the more recent ruling by a federal court judge, out of Missoula, upholding the restraining order on the grizzly hunt as a sign of the changing times, but to them I would say that that is an example of the voice of a minority winning out, where as when the voice of the many is heard, MT values win out.

We'll see how long my optimism keeps up.

 

[Billinsd]

Move, go to places big on petroleum exploration and agriculture. These are places that will be the slowest to turn liberal. I'm going back out there to Glasgow to get my car after hitting a deer 3 weeks ago. I'm going to fly to Billings and take a 6 seater Cessna plane like my dad had in the 70s for $28 to Glasgow. Maybe the pilot will let me sit in the copilot seat again? I'll have lunch in Glasgow and saver my time there while heading west. Helena looks like a rat hole and so does Great Falls. I love the forests and mtns but not the rats, bums, tweekers, and liberals it brings. Lots of good, good people from California. They are mostly the born and raised over 40. California was the best place for raising kids in the 60s, 70s and 80s. I'm real greatful to my mom and dad for raising me and my brother here. It's a hell hole now and I'm not happy raising my kids here. I'm telling them I will pay their way in a good university and will encourage them to study out of state and move out of state. The burn about these places I'd like to live have depressed economies and the educational opportunities are very poor. That's why I haven't left California, yet. Life is full of compromises.

 

[Shrek]

You should be worried. The socialist will kill freedom and the middle class. Missoula and Bozeman are already lost to the coastal socialist elites and they will soon completely control the state. The low population of Montana makes it vulnerable to a relatively small California influx.

 

[Billinsd]

The extreme liberals are 10% of the population I'm told. But the news media, schools, etc. Support them.

 

[Billinsd]

I'm 27, so I don't have a lot of history to speak of, but I have been a Montana resident for 22 of my 27 years.

With almost every hot-button issue, but this issue in particular, I have a hard time reconciling whether we feel this impact because the opinions are more pervasive, or if it's because everyone feels like they can be more vocal about their opinions in current times. Everyone has a pedestal to scream from now due to social media, and the radicals are the ones screaming, but in general, people are plainly more open about their opinions and feelings about everything these days.

I have faith that while more and more out of state folks move to MT, the values that the state was built on will continue to win out. I see this in the recent failing of the bill to ban trapping. Some may reference the more recent ruling by a federal court judge, out of Missoula, upholding the restraining order on the grizzly hunt as a sign of the changing times, but to them I would say that that is an example of the voice of a minority winning out, where as when the voice of the many is heard, MT values win out.

We'll see how long my optimism keeps up.

Western Montana is unrecognizable to me from the 70s. Go drive around the east part of the state, it's like a totally different state, like Western Montana used to be. Sorry, Montana will fall like Colorado. It's happening.

 

[Billinsd]

Legal and especially illegal immigration is fueling the Montana problem. Why are so many Californians moving to Montana? To get out of California. Why? Because, California is overcrowed, has high taxes, high crime, etc. Why is that? A big part is the illegals flooding in. If Republicans and Democrats wouldn't have let so many undesirable, people into the country we wouldn't be in this mess. The country isn't growing, because it's citizens are having too many kids, nope it's illegals, refuges, etc. That is the core problem. Republicans want cheap labor, Democrats want votes. We all suffer.

 

[Billinsd]

You should be worried. The socialist will kill freedom and the middle class. Missoula and Bozeman are already lost to the coastal socialist elites and they will soon completely control the state. The low population of Montana makes it vulnerable to a relatively small California influx.

how about merging eastern wyoming and montana into a new state? I'd move there.

 

[cuerro viejo]

any red state which typically also has a booming economy is getting imported to death.

Texas is perfect example. Our booming economy is a double edged sword. Unfortunately the idiots that got relocated here when their companies hauled ass out of Cali can’t seem to figured out less liberal policies failed them, thus why thier asses are in Texas.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Move, go to places big on petroleum exploration and agriculture. These are places that will be the slowest to turn liberal. I'm going back out there to Glasgow to get my car after hitting a deer 3 weeks ago. I'm going to fly to Billings and take a 6 seater Cessna plane like my dad had in the 70s for $28 to Glasgow. Maybe the pilot will let me sit in the copilot seat again? I'll have lunch in Glasgow and saver my time there while heading west. Helena looks like a rat hole and so does Great Falls. I love the forests and mtns but not the rats, bums, tweekers, and liberals it brings. Lots of good, good people from California. They are mostly the born and raised over 40. California was the best place for raising kids in the 60s, 70s and 80s. I'm real greatful to my mom and dad for raising me and my brother here. It's a hell hole now and I'm not happy raising my kids here. I'm telling them I will pay their way in a good university and will encourage them to study out of state and move out of state. The burn about these places I'd like to live have depressed economies and the educational opportunities are very poor. That's why I haven't left California, yet. Life is full of compromises.

Texas is both and we are about to find out if Socialism is taking over Texas.

 

[Shrek]

how about merging eastern wyoming and montana into a new state? I'd move there.

Wyoming is interesting in that despite the low population I don’t think it’s nearly as vulnerable. Teton County is the only real hotbed for socialist from outside and since it’s such a limited area isolated from the rest of the state the price of real estate is making it impossible for most to move there. There’s no place for suburban sprawl to go. There’s no other cultural hotspot in Wyoming to attract urban socialists. Wyoming is just too sparsely populated to support the amenities that attract socialist.

 

[Billinsd]

Wyoming is interesting in that despite the low population I don’t think it’s nearly as vulnerable. Teton County is the only real hotbed for socialist from outside and since it’s such a limited area isolated from the rest of the state the price of real estate is making it impossible for most to move there. There’s no place for suburban sprawl to go. There’s no other cultural hotspot in Wyoming to attract urban socialists. Wyoming is just too sparsely populated to support the amenities that attract socialist.

What about Rock Springs? I just about fell over driving out of the motel seeing a big sign against Grizzly Bear hunting. The woman I met in Baker from San Diego that owned the motel had a good grasp on things. She can't live in tiny Baker year round. She goes stir crazy. Instead of trying to change people, she goes back and visits California and finds people to talk to. I wouldn't be super happy living in a tiny town 12 months of the year. I don't want to live anywhere 12 months of the year. I enjoy traveling.

 

[CorbLand]

What about Rock Springs? I just about fell over driving out of the motel seeing a big sign against Grizzly Bear hunting.

Funded by outside interests. Theres an anti hunting billboard outside of Vernal, Utah. There arent many leftists in Vernal.

 

[Billinsd]

Funded by outside interests. Theres an anti hunting billboard outside of Vernal, Utah. There arent many leftists in Vernal.

Probably, but who owned that sign in Rock Springs and Vernal? Probably a local, maybe not, I don't know. Whoever owned the sign didn't have to run the ad, I would think. The hotel owner said Rock Springs has some liberals, she said it's mixed. I don't know, but everything else she said makes sense. I didn't like the vibe I got there. However, I didn't really feel chill until Gillette.

 

[Billinsd]

Wyoming is interesting in that despite the low population I don’t think it’s nearly as vulnerable. Teton County is the only real hotbed for socialist from outside and since it’s such a limited area isolated from the rest of the state the price of real estate is making it impossible for most to move there. There’s no place for suburban sprawl to go. There’s no other cultural hotspot in Wyoming to attract urban socialists. Wyoming is just too sparsely populated to support the amenities that attract socialist.

Evenstan seemed a bit sprawling to me. It felt more like a broken off piece of Utah than Wyoming. I've never visited it, that's just what I took from looking off the fwy at night and how close it is to Utah. It was like a little tiny suburban looking place off by its self. I would imagine the people there are conservative, because it's not in the mountains, it's not really a recreational area.

 

[Shrek]

What about Rock Springs? I just about fell over driving out of the motel seeing a big sign against Grizzly Bear hunting. The woman I met in Baker from San Diego that owned the motel had a good grasp on things. She can't live in tiny Baker year round. She goes stir crazy. Instead of trying to change people, she goes back and visits California and finds people to talk to. I wouldn't be super happy living in a tiny town 12 months of the year. I don't want to live anywhere 12 months of the year. I enjoy traveling.

Those signs are from big anti hunting groups and are targeting tourist visiting or traveling through Wyoming. They’re trying to make it an issue in other states to influence Federal policy.

 

[Billinsd]

Those signs are from big anti hunting groups and are targeting tourist visiting or traveling through Wyoming. They’re trying to make it an issue in other states to influence Federal policy.

Right, of course. But who owns those signs? Locals or out of state? I'd guess locals, but I don't know?

 

[KJH]

Montana needs to adopt a new official State slogan like Nebraska did this week... "Nebraska, honestly its not for everyone". That should help keep most people away.