Hiring a "Broker" outfitter for guided hunt draws

[Billinsd]

I remember this was happening in New Mexico 18 years ago. How about now, how about other states like Nevada? Thanks Bill

 

[robby denning]

Hiring a "Broker" outfitter for guided hunt draws

Are you asking that if you put in with an outfitter so you can have better hunt draw odds? If so yes Nevada allows that in any unit that has an outfitter.


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[Billinsd]

Are you asking that if you put in with an outfitter so you can have better hunt draw odds? If so yes Nevada allows that in any unit that has an outfitter.


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Kinda. I mean can I put in with an outfitter to increase my draw odds, without having him physically guiding me? Could I put in with an outfitter, get drawn and pay him a fee, like $500 or $1,000 for advice on how to hunt the unit and a map? Or just putting in with an outfitter, and paying him a fee if I get drawn. I'm not saying I would do this, or if it is morally wrong or not. I witnessed this in New Mexico about 20 years ago. I'm just curious if it's legal and/or a loophole and people are doing it.

 

[Billinsd]

My wife gave me the greenlight to start cashing in on hunts I've been building points for, for decades!!! So, I've been pouring over what hunts I could possibly draw with my points. I'll hire a good guide for an elk hunt, because I'll need help packing it out and to take me by the hand to actually hunt. Not in a pampered way, rather I would follow him. My best guided hunts by far have been hiring one guide and paying him and camping and cooking together, nothing fancy, real spartan. I paid a guide decades ago for 3 days. Two days were for him to show me a place to camp, took me scouting and guided me the first day, then left me there to hunt. For some deer hunts I could do by myself or pay for maps and Intel. Thanks.

 

[wapitibob]

Kinda. I mean can I put in with an outfitter to increase my draw odds, without having him physically guiding me? Could I put in with an outfitter, get drawn and pay him a fee, like $500 or $1,000 for advice on how to hunt the unit and a map? Or just putting in with an outfitter, and paying him a fee if I get drawn. I'm not saying I would do this, or if it is morally wrong or not. I witnessed this in New Mexico about 20 years ago. I'm just curious if it's legal and/or a loophole and people are doing it.

Not in NM anymore. They recently changed the statute to require a guide to physically accompany the hunter.

 

[robby denning]

I understand. I don’t know the answer to that question. Sounds like a form of drop camp hunting, which lots of outfitters do. Probably varies from operation to operation as long as the state allows it. Let us know.


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[sandhillhunter]

From the NM game and fish web site:

“New Mexico’s special drawing pool allocates up to 10% of all available big-game licenses for each hunt code. To apply in the 10% special drawing pool, a “New Mexico Outfitter” shall execute a written contract with each special drawing pool applicant. Contracts must be signed and dated by all parties prior to application for any special drawing pool license. It is unlawful for an outfitter or guide to contract with themselves or to guide themselves using a special drawing pool license. A “New Mexico Outfitter” may release a contracted hunter-client to another “New Mexico Outfitter” provided that the original contract was valid, in place prior to the application deadline and only if it is mutually agreed upon and signed by all parties.

A “New Mexico Outfitter” shall ensure that each hunter-client who obtains a license through the 10% special drawing pool is accompanied by the outfitter or their registered guide for at least two days during the contracted dates of the hunt in the area where the hunter-client’s license is valid. Accompanied shall mean that the outfitter or their registered guide physically escorts the hunter-client in the field during the hunter-client’s license hunt dates.

A hunter-client who obtains a license through the 10% special drawing pool, and chooses to hunt beyond their contracted hunt dates must carry a copy of the contract while hunting if it had not been submitted electronically to the registrar at least 48 hours prior to the scheduled hunt. It is unlawful to hunt with a license obtained through the 10% special drawing pool without being accompanied by, and contracted with, a “New Mexico Outfitter” or their guide for at least two days during the hunt.”

Before this law was written, you only had to have contact with the guide around the time of the hunt but did not have to be accompanied by them during the hunt (like a drop camp situation like Robby mentioned).

At that time, the outfitter pool was also 10% if tags just for non residents (and 12% for non-residents without a guide). Now it is open to both residents and non-residents.


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[Idaho Brad]

i'm not in the outfitting business, but if someone pulled an outfitter allocated tag in my area there is not a chance in hell I would let them pay anything less than the full cost of that hunt. I would guess the outfitters rely in some part on those tags for a good chunk of their yearly revenue.

 

[slick]

Agree with ID brad. It wouldn’t make sense to sell info that wasn’t the same price as the guided hunt. Unless there isn’t the demand for it.

 

[Billinsd]

From the NM game and fish web site:

“New Mexico’s special drawing pool allocates up to 10% of all available big-game licenses for each hunt code. To apply in the 10% special drawing pool, a “New Mexico Outfitter” shall execute a written contract with each special drawing pool applicant. Contracts must be signed and dated by all parties prior to application for any special drawing pool license. It is unlawful for an outfitter or guide to contract with themselves or to guide themselves using a special drawing pool license. A “New Mexico Outfitter” may release a contracted hunter-client to another “New Mexico Outfitter” provided that the original contract was valid, in place prior to the application deadline and only if it is mutually agreed upon and signed by all parties.

A “New Mexico Outfitter” shall ensure that each hunter-client who obtains a license through the 10% special drawing pool is accompanied by the outfitter or their registered guide for at least two days during the contracted dates of the hunt in the area where the hunter-client’s license is valid. Accompanied shall mean that the outfitter or their registered guide physically escorts the hunter-client in the field during the hunter-client’s license hunt dates.

A hunter-client who obtains a license through the 10% special drawing pool, and chooses to hunt beyond their contracted hunt dates must carry a copy of the contract while hunting if it had not been submitted electronically to the registrar at least 48 hours prior to the scheduled hunt. It is unlawful to hunt with a license obtained through the 10% special drawing pool without being accompanied by, and contracted with, a “New Mexico Outfitter” or their guide for at least two days during the hunt.”

Before this law was written, you only had to have contact with the guide around the time of the hunt but did not have to be accompanied by them during the hunt (like a drop camp situation like Robby mentioned).

At that time, the outfitter pool was also 10% if tags just for non residents (and 12% for non-residents without a guide). Now it is open to both residents and non-residents.


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Thanks! What do other states with outfitter draws like Idaho have in their regs regarding this?

 

[Billinsd]

Agree with ID brad. It wouldn’t make sense to sell info that wasn’t the same price as the guided hunt. Unless there isn’t the demand for it.

I'm not a guide or a businessman. However, if you had an outfitting license valid for an entire state, or multiple states and you subcontracted lots of guides to guide your clients, you could make a lot of money charging clients who don't want to hire a guide, but are happy to pay a grand or more for a general map and increased draw odds. You'd have to have a big area, and would want to sell extremely detailed info that create too much competition for your sub outfitters.

It doesn't make sense for the small outfitter with a small area to sell better odds for drawing for a fraction of his hunt prices, where these hunters would adversely affect his physical clients hunts.

 

[Trial153]

Outfitter welfare needs to be put to bed. NM is the worst but it's not the only place. In the past I think NM the guide only had to be present for like the first 3 days then after that your on your own. Now they need to be present for the entire hunt if you drew in the outfitted pool.

The real problem is the outfittited pool need to get flushed down the toilet with the rest of the welfare shit. But our two party system loves welfare. Keeps their pockets lined. Deadbeat welfare. Outfitter welfare, corporate welfare, landowner welfare. Farmer welfare, rancher welfare. Special intrest welfare.

 

[Billinsd]

Well, no, read above where outfitter didn't used to have to accompany client at all, now it's 2 days. Yes, to me it's outfitter welfare and yes both parties promote all kinds of welfare. I'd like to know how things are now and who I'm competing with for tags. I don't really like any of the nonresident odds, or fees. However, I can suck it up and hunt, move to another state, or just don't go. I don't want to complain, it's negative and does no good. Thanks all!!