My home town is gone!

[tdhanses]

We sure see things differently...thats for sure.

PGE is in a no win situation here in CA.

Just turn off the power you say? Oh man, the tantrums created by doing that would be huge. [another political conundrum]

Everyone here is pointing the finger at PGE the public electricity provider. They can't enforce clearing and trimming trees as they would like- then they get sued. We have already established documented cases of residents and Environmentalists chastising PGE for clearing trees by the local paper.

The PUC in their grasping at straws to end around the environmentalists asked PGE to bury all of the utility lines. [Yeah right, hundreds of thousands of miles?!] The costs came back at $1,000,000 per mile... Ridiculous idea....

This is the environment here in CA....no common sense...and then when catastrophe strikes, lets blame someone else for our problems.

We need leadership here...and we get Crickets. Then everyone lambasts Trump for telling it like it is......a bit insensitively for sure...but its the truth.

Well CA residents better get ready for a large spike in power costs, maybe CA just shouldn’t have power.

 

[Bigfootcali]

I see things from a perspective outside of politics,i have seem first hand how destructive fire is and also know that they can cut the power they did it once before. We can sit here and play the finger pointing game all day and you will still see things the way you do,you seem to have your head dug into the political misconceptions and have chosing a side so I'll leave you with this before you point the finger and try to establish blame first take a look at the environment we live and these things have been a hundred years in the making and not nothing that modern politics could have stopped.

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[sneaky]

I see things from a perspective outside of politics,i have seem first hand how destructive fire is and also know that they can cut the power they did it once before. We can sit here and play the finger pointing game all day and you will still see things the way you do,you seem to have your head dug into the political misconceptions and have chosing a side so I'll leave you with this before you point the finger and try to establish blame first take a look at the environment we live and these things have been a hundred years in the making and not nothing that modern politics could have stopped.

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Are you arguing with yourself at this point?

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[Bigfootcali]

Are you arguing with yourself at this point?

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Call it what you want,but I'm not offended like others on here,i call it how i see it.

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[Takem]

We sure see things differently...thats for sure.

PGE is in a no win situation here in CA.

Just turn off the power you say? Oh man, the tantrums created by doing that would be huge. [another political conundrum]

Everyone here is pointing the finger at PGE the public electricity provider. They can't enforce clearing and trimming trees as they would like- then they get sued. We have already established documented cases of residents and Environmentalists chastising PGE for clearing trees by the local paper.

The PUC in their grasping at straws to end around the environmentalists asked PGE to bury all of the utility lines. [Yeah right, hundreds of thousands of miles?!] The costs came back at $1,000,000 per mile... Ridiculous idea....

This is the environment here in CA....no common sense...and then when catastrophe strikes, lets blame someone else for our problems.

We need leadership here...and we get Crickets. Then everyone lambasts Trump for telling it like it is......a bit insensitively for sure...but its the truth.

I can't argue with what your saying about the lack of leadership and common sense that's running rampant and dragging us down. I'm not so quick to feel sorry for PGE though. In my experience they suffer from the same lack of leadership and common sense you're talking about. I'm not one of the ones pointing a finger at them, there's too many factors that contributed to this fire, but they still may have been negligent.

 

[Bigfootcali]

I can't argue with what your saying about the lack of leadership and common sense that's running rampant and dragging us down. I'm not so quick to feel sorry for PGE though. In my experience they suffer from the same lack of leadership and common sense you're talking about. I'm not one of the ones pointing a finger at them, there's too many factors that contributed to this fire, but they still may have been negligent.

The lack of leadership and direction is apparent in not only the government but also the utility companies who operate and run things in California. I have said that this is a hundred years in the making and that's due to lack of logging or thinning but most importantly early on low intensity fires were suppressed instead of being managed to burn and help clear out the understory intern which has turned into a jungle of sorts with a mixed varierty of brush and dead and down trees,dead brush and a mix of grass and scrubs that are very receptive to fire. Then you take all that combined it with a influx of the populace build homes and communities in these mountainous area's then the recipe for disaster grows. The utility companies main focus is revenue then safety and how and were they place there lines,it's all about money to them if you look at it.then you have politicians who are also focused on income than the people and then do nothing to regualte things that could help for one thing these areas of fuels and regulate how these utility's do things during extreme fire conditions.

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[Beendare]

Interesting followup for us here in Ca. The fire is 100% out with help of some rain......

Now Cal Fire is doing some controlled burning in the Santa Cruz mtns over the next couple days with more controlled burns scheduled. [the SC mtns have some of the same type communities as Paradise,Ca.]

Taking advantage of the fact the Environmentalists have their tails between their legs no doubt......

 

[Huntindog45]

Yes it is a very terrible tragedy that could have beem prevented if PG&E would have shut down the lines like they had prior during simular red flag conditions,there faulty equipment was already to blame for another devastating fire. There needs to be more regulation when it comes to power companies and they do things during these types of conditions. California has a history of devastating fires but nothing of this magnitude and the type of fire behavior we are seeing today. I agree with you that the new governor will do nothing to mitigate this problem,i see him contributing to the problem but that is on the state level,on the fed side thats a whole different beast that i do not see getting any better. We live in a state were quite a bit of the population lives in these areas that are very susceptible to wildfires and pose a very big challenge for firefighters when it comes to supression and keeping the population safe.

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Remember how much crap PG&E caught for shutting down lines too. people didnt have air conditioning. the horror.... PG&E is screwed either way. Of course no one forsway this tragedy the way it unfolded. But PGE was in a no win situation from the start.

 

[Capra]

I truly feel bad for everyone affected by the fire.

When I first heard about this fire in knew it was going to be bad up there for many reasons. The primary one being the topography and road system. Paradise and Magailia area is truly unique in the sense that there are lots of roads that dead end to nowhere but a bluff. I'm sure it was horrifying trying to evacuate. I can only imagine.

Several things come to mind. PG&E It is not as simple as just turn off the power like the breaker on your main. Once it is determined that the grid can handle turning it off. You then have to turn in back ON. A major problem, Every line, and transformer then need to be checked to make sure it is safe to go live again.

This fire is not PG&E s fault. But we all will pay.

All of us Californians are to blame for letting the tort process get so out of control that Cal Fire(Put it out), Forrest Service(Let it Burn), and the Greenies are in a state of litigation non-stop. Have any of you tried to get a logging plan through lately.........

Another problem we have here is that there are dwellings everywhere in the foothills and mountains. I'm not sure there is a single area where a fire could start that it is not densely populated relative the rest of the west.

Sadly, I'm not sure we could get all of the powers that be to even half ass agree let alone do anything. To the greenies, a human life is only worth 1/2 of a tree and with that thought process, the mis management of our forests will continue.

One more thing, Your fire insurance rate...............well get ready.

Again, I feel horrible for the residents of Butte county That area will never be the same. Huge thank you to all of the public service members that worked day and night. Thank God that it is now contained

 

[Huntindog45]

I truly feel bad for everyone affected by the fire.

When I first heard about this fire in knew it was going to be bad up there for many reasons. The primary one being the topography and road system. Paradise and Magailia area is truly unique in the sense that there are lots of roads that dead end to nowhere but a bluff. I'm sure it was horrifying trying to evacuate. I can only imagine.

Several things come to mind. PG&E It is not as simple as just turn off the power like the breaker on your main. Once it is determined that the grid can handle turning it off. You then have to turn in back ON. A major problem, Every line, and transformer then need to be checked to make sure it is safe to go live again.

This fire is not PG&E s fault. But we all will pay.

All of us Californians are to blame for letting the tort process get so out of control that Cal Fire(Put it out), Forrest Service(Let it Burn), and the Greenies are in a state of litigation non-stop. Have any of you tried to get a logging plan through lately.........

Another problem we have here is that there are dwellings everywhere in the foothills and mountains. I'm not sure there is a single area where a fire could start that it is not densely populated relative the rest of the west.

Sadly, I'm not sure we could get all of the powers that be to even half ass agree let alone do anything. To the greenies, a human life is only worth 1/2 of a tree and with that thought process, the mis management of our forests will continue.

One more thing, Your fire insurance rate...............well get ready.

Again, I feel horrible for the residents of Butte county That area will never be the same. Huge thank you to all of the public service members that worked day and night. Thank God that it is now contained

All very true. Every road in Paradise looked like an afterthought. Urban planning was not even a term when paradise was built. if you could doze a two track into a lot and put a driveway on it they did. And many of those homes were mobiles which are giant pieces of kindling.
We all knew paradise would burn some day. it has been talked about since i was a kid. I thought it would come from the north. I just always thought it would be a fire on a north wind day started on hwy 32 and it would overtake paradise from the butte creek canyon side. I never saw it coming from concow. Not sure why, I fought fire for awhile and I knew about the jarbo gap winds and how dense the vegetation was there. I guess i just never really looked at the map and noticed the direct route a fire would have that started in pulga area.

 

[Azone]

It's a tragedy plain and simple. My cousins had retired a few years back and bought a house up there after living in the south Salinas valley their whole life, it really was paradise from the way they described it. They were told to get out immediately and when they finally returned home all that was really left was the concrete foundation. Their home and everything in it was burned and blown away by the winds. My wife and I donated as much clothes and kids toys as we could, I hope they at least made someone cheer up a bit.

When I was 19 my house burned to the ground and 95 percent of the contents were ruined, guns, bow, fishing tackle, everything except for what was in the back seat of my truck was reduced to ash. But there were a few boxes that survived the flames and the fire hoses, nothing like when your mom finds a picture of your dad and his ex wifes engagement announcement, that got a hell of laugh out of everyone. It really was a crushing experience to watch it all burn up though. So I can honestly relate to a lot of people up there right now.

Politics in California are out of control and have been for sometime, everyone bashes on us for having idiots in office, but when the majority of people out here are idiots they are going to vote for fellow idiots, birds of a feather flock together. Every one who thinks it's all a bunch of movie stars and douchebags out here has never been where I was born and raised. There are plenty of us out here who can't stand the way things are being run, but sadly all of us in the small towns are at the mercy of the urban sewers of L.A. and San Francisco. It really does irritate the hell out of me when I get to a trail head or camp ground and someone sees the "Cali plates" and the jaw flapping starts. But some people just think everyone is a jerk or asshole out here and that tells me they really have never been here but ignorance seems to rule the day anymore.

The fires out here are only going to get worse and more costly to fight the last major fire in my area was the Sobranes fire a few years back and if memory serves me right it was also the most expensive in history to fight breaking the 200 million mark. Cal Fire has their hands tied due to all the eco retards out here. Having talked to several members of Cal Fire through out the years there are hundreds of thousands of acres that need prescribed burning if not millions and the tree huggers through a cat 5 bitch fit over all of it. Then it happens the conditions are just right and boom 100,000 acres toasted to the point it looks like the moon. These fires are starting to burn so hot they're sterilizing the soil in some places. It's a grim situation I dont see getting better any time soon but as long as we are governed by bleeding hearts and emotions this will be the new normal sadly.

 

[daddywagz]

I relocate nationwide for 3-12 month long construction projects. I've spent roughly 5 of the past 9 years in various parts of CA. One thing that this lifestyle has taught me is that you can't assume what type of person you'll run into based on the state you are in. CA is just like almost every other state, the big cities vote blue and more rural areas vote red. It's surprising how often people have made comments like "I don't know how you can live there, I could never, crazy commies".. Uh, I live in a little mountain town full of rednecks, ranchers, and construction workers. Yeah, it sucks I can't bring some of my AR's and pistols but there are much better public land shooting opportunities where I can ring steel from a long ways than there are in my home state of MN. There were 4.4 million people that voted for Trump in CA, 400k in Idaho, 280k in MT, yet people will have dumb ass thoughts about CA "deserving it" for their politics.

Most frustrating is how hungry certain people are to feed their hate and seemingly focus directly on finding a way to use this mess as a way to try to validate their political identity. Left wants to crucify the right for their eagerness to ignore climate change, right wants to crucify left for their overboard natural resource management. Maybe if people would think for themselves they could see that both sides have a point and there were other non-political factors at play as well.

Thanks for that one Wind Gypsy. People who rag on CA have generally never been here. Folks think they know CA from their extensive viewing of Bay Watch.

 

[tdhanses]

Thanks for that one Wind Gypsy. People who rag on CA have generally never been here. Folks think they know CA from their extensive viewing of Bay Watch.

Or they base their views off relatives that live in Los Altos.

 

[Billinsd]

Thanks for that one Wind Gypsy. People who rag on CA have generally never been here. Folks think they know CA from their extensive viewing of Bay Watch.

No, I completely disagree. Whenever I travel the US, the people I meet have been to California. The foreign visitors are the ones that think California is like Bay Watch, not other Americans. I'm a native Californian. My parents moved here in the early 50s. Califirnia used to be a great Conservative state. It's a hell hole now. What outsiders are saying is true. Of course not every single Californian is bad, there are millions of good folks. However, those folks are outnumbered by about 10 to 1. Us Californians are getting what we deserve. No, not me specifically, California as a whole. Paradise lost is a consequence mostly of the unintended consequences of liberalism. The core cause is the poor forest management. Sure the rural areas of California are generally more conservative than the big cities. I don't typically care for the rural areas I've visited in California, especially the southern half of the state. A lot of the people in these areas don't seem to be friendly and come across as mean, and rude to me, when I compare them to rural areas in other Western states. No, I don't have any desire to move to a rural area in California from San Diego. None, zero. California has been flooded by illegals from the south and liberals from the East. Therefore, its demographics have changed completely since I was a kid. It's Unrecognizable to me anymore. I'm planning on getting out soon. Your mileage may differ as do other Californians who have posted.

 

[Huntindog45]

No, I completely disagree. Whenever I travel the US, the people I meet have been to California. The foreign visitors are the ones that think California is like Bay Watch, not other Americans. I'm a native Californian. My parents moved here in the early 50s. Califirnia used to be a great Conservative state. It's a hell hole now. What outsiders are saying is true. Of course not every single Californian is bad, there are millions of good folks. However, those folks are outnumbered by about 10 to 1. Us Californians are getting what we deserve. No, not me specifically, California as a whole. Paradise lost is a consequence mostly of the unintended consequences of liberalism. The core cause is the poor forest management. Sure the rural areas of California are generally more conservative than the big cities. I don't typically care for the rural areas I've visited in California, especially the southern half of the state. A lot of the people in these areas don't seem to be friendly and come across as mean, and rude to me, when I compare them to rural areas in other Western states. No, I don't have any desire to move to a rural area in California from San Diego. None, zero. California has been flooded by illegals from the south and liberals from the East. Therefore, its demographics have changed completely since I was a kid. It's Unrecognizable to me anymore. I'm planning on getting out soon. Your mileage may differ as do other Californians who have posted.

I couldn't disagree more. I will never forget people asking me if I have ever seen it snow before when they found out I was from California after I moved to Montana. That kind of comment was fairly regular. Even now when we visit my wife's family and friends in Philadelphia we have to explain to them that we living in a mountainous area and there is no beach near us. They often times have no clue that exists in California.

As for the rest of your argument this fire burnt in an area that had burned hard ten years ago. and in fact has had numerous fires in the last ten years. It was mostly private timber land that is logged extensively. the poor forest management argument around this fire just does not hold water. In fact it isn't even relevant. I agree we have done a terrible job. Our forests do not look natural any more. the dense timber stands we have now have only aided in the proliferation of bark beetle and other diseases. Now we have been in severe drought making it even worse. We have had almost no snowpack at mid elevations, where this fire occurred, and very little snow pack at high elevations. i have a cabin at about 6000 feet. For forty years we would board it up in November and not see it again until we got a snow plow to open up the road on memorial day. Typically it would get 20 plus feet of snow. the last few years i have driven in all winter without even using four wheel drive. the last few years it has gotten between two and four feet of snow...total.
Our summers are longer and the fuels are drier and fires burn hotter and longer into the winter. those are the facts and they really are not even disputable.

 

[Billinsd]

I couldn't disagree more. I will never forget people asking me if I have ever seen it snow before when they found out I was from California after I moved to Montana. That kind of comment was fairly regular.

Did the other people that you have met on your travels, other than the people you met in Montana and your wife's relatives in Philadelphia, have the same view as they did? My experiences have been very different than yours, but when I talk to people outside of California, I'm a visitor, not someone that lives there and interacts with them day to day.

Even now when we visit my wife's family and friends in Philadelphia we have to explain to them that we living in a mountainous area and there is no beach near us. They often times have no clue that exists in California.

Do you have to explain this to your wife's family and friends repeatedly every time you visit them?

the dense timber stands we have now have only aided in the proliferation of bark beetle and other diseases.

Who manages the dense timber stands you are referring too? I believe the forest circus is too political, beaurocratic, and lazy, and does a poor job of managing our forests. I also believe they are further hampered by lawsuits by the greenies.
Thanks
Bill

 

[dhill3]

Sorry man

 

[mod700]

Lived on the ridge for 54 years (Paradise/Magalia), makes me sick to drive through town. It's almost disorientating at times, because no land marks are left. I'd guess somewhere around 95 % of the town is gone. Been in the construction trade most my life, and the vast majority of the houses that we have built, remodeled, or added on to are gone. My personal house is still standing, but I lost two rental properties in Paradise.
As Brooks said most of the country burned was all brush, the fire started about 7 miles as the bullet fly's from the east edge of town. It covered ground unbelievably fast, and was spotting well ahead of the main burn with the strong wind. If you live in a possible fire area, have a plan, keep your gas tanks in your vehicles 1/2 full, have a list of things to grab, if you got time, and a meeting place for family. Our cell service was out, causing a lot of added frustration, and lack of communication. And like said earlier, a lot of us from Northern Ca. are hard working, flannel wearing kind of people, with no love for the governor, or their screwed up agenda running our state into the ground.
Mike