CWD and eating venison

[LostArra]

Interesting podcast by two guys who know deer. They aren't professional entertainers but are very knowledgeable without being too academic.

Episode 031 - Eating venison in a CWD world | Mississippi State University Extension Service


I'm too old to get worked up about it but I wonder about the long-term future of deer/elk hunting when the safety of the meat comes into question by popular mainstream media. Accurate or not, when it becomes headlines, things get messy.

 

[Drop Bear]

Close family of mine is a doctor turned public health professional. She worked in Europe during the Mad Cow (bovine CWD essentially) era. She is pretty relaxed about most things, but is very concerned about folks eating CWD meet. It's not an issue in my part of the world thankfully, but boy, i would tread with caution in that area. There are almost conspiracy theories about CWD that i've herd. I think, if it becomes the health issue that it could, it would be a disaster for north american wildlife.

 

[jsb]

There must have been hundreds of thousands of CWD animals consumed in North America by now...doesn't it seem like it would be obvious if it were harmful to humans?

 

[robby denning]

There must have been hundreds of thousands of CWD animals consumed in North America by now...doesn't it seem like it would be obvious if it were harmful to humans?

That’s what I was thinking. They just confirmed it in Jackson Hole and I’ve ate several deer from up there. Include friends and it’s in the dozens.

But LostArra, you raise a good point.


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[MuleyFever]

I lived and hunted in the middle of the CWD zone in WI when it broke out there over a decade ago. Total eradication of the deer in that area was the DNRs goal. We could kill all the deer we wanted. My friends and family have been eating deer in that area for generations and we ate every deer we killed while helping the DNR reduce the population. They still eat them now. I am pretty sure driving to work is more of a health risk.

 

[zacattack]

There’s still a lot we don’t know about CWD and it’s transmission to people. It’s a hard thing to get a handle on, especially since a lot of animals will die long before they ever show signs.

BTW I deal with dangerous diseases regularly and prions freak me the hell out. I mean you can only destroy them with extremely high temps and once infected there’s no cure.

 

[LostArra]

Most important: the means to test a harvested animal have to be improved so hunters will more readily get their game tested hopefully before it's processed. The test has to be relatively fast and convenient. More importantly the tests must be diagnostically specific (eliminate false positives) and especially sensitive (eliminate false negatives).

I cannot understand why Wyoming does not require testing of deer, elk and moose in the SE part of the state other than it's inconvenient as hell for most hunters who face a long drive home and the G&F does not want to cause a panic to their cash cow of non-resident hunters.

 

[EastMT]

CWD is a member of the transmissable spongiform encephalopathy family, similar to Mad cow disease or Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy. I work in the meat industry and with BSE there are several different places the prions are located, the USDA has named these SRM’s or Specified Risk Material.

I do not know the age correlation with game, but in beef it’s never been found in an animal under 30 months old. Since these are related, I’ll give you what I know about it.

In all ages, the tonsils and distal ilium(part of the small intestine) are SRM’s. The tonsils are in the back of the throat as you know, but also on the back of the tongue below the vallate papillae, see attached, they are the little wrinkled area below the last set of little circles.

In all cattle over 30 months there are many more SRM’s. I use the following goofy acronym to remember them all:

BEST VD’S

Brain
Eyes
Skull
Trigeminal Ganglia (nerves in back of head)

Vertebral Collumn
Dorsal Root Ganglia(nerves in spine)
Spinal Cord

As you can see, all of these items are central nervous system parts. So if you don’t boil and eat whole necks, boil game heads to eat, eat eyes, or use the small intestine, your risk is greatly reduced. A few of the safety guidelines are easy, like if you saw the horns off your deer, don’t use the same blade for edible parts. If you saw through the spine, same thing. Most of theses are easy to avoid. The one that you will hit most is the spinal cord and the base of the skull. Easy fix, use a good knife for most of the cutting, switch to an extra used just for the final few cuts of the spinal cord.

So the risk is not in consuming game meat, it is in consuming game meat contaminated with the prions. With a few easy steps you can reduce your chance of exposure down to a minimum.

I hope this helps, it’s not worth a panic, but your attention to it sure can’t hurt.

Coop





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[Idahomnts]

Thanks coop , very informal , and answered some questions I’ve asked my self lol

 

[Desk Jockey]

I swapped a few notes with the meat eater crew about this to ask about something from their podcast. Essence of the response was they now avoid the central nervous system. Not clear if it was all deer or just those in there hunting area. So no more roast deer heads. No more neck roasts. No more double sided chops with vertebrae.

 

[LostArra]

I swapped a few notes with the meat eater crew about this to ask about something from their podcast. Essence of the response was they now avoid the central nervous system. Not clear if it was all deer or just those in there hunting area. So no more roast deer heads. No more neck roasts. No more double sided chops with vertebrae.

This and coop's excellent explanation are extremely disheartening but not unexpected. I've always been a neck roast fan. I've got two neck roasts in the freezer from a supposed non-CWD state that I am going to braise slowly and eat as I have in the past. After that I'll probably just bone them out on any future deer. How disappointing.

 

[BuzzH]

The cwd test cant assure you that the animal you shot doesn't have CWD either.

Randy Newberg had a great podcast on CWD that I listened to just recently with 2 experts that have been dealing with it for a long time. May be worth a listen...

 

[Ridge Ghost]

The cwd test cant assure you that the animal you shot doesn't have CWD either.

Randy Newberg had a great podcast on CWD that I listened to just recently with 2 experts that have been dealing with it for a long time. May be worth a listen...

I listened to that podcast as well. Great information. The biggest takaways from it: Keep hunting, get your deer tested if in a CWD area, and be careful in transporting game from inside to outside a CWD area to prevent further spreading of the disease.

 

[wytx]

Most important: the means to test a harvested animal have to be improved so hunters will more readily get their game tested hopefully before it's processed. The test has to be relatively fast and convenient. More importantly the tests must be diagnostically specific (eliminate false positives) and especially sensitive (eliminate false negatives).

I cannot understand why Wyoming does not require testing of deer, elk and moose in the SE part of the state other than it's inconvenient as hell for most hunters who face a long drive home and the G&F does not want to cause a panic to their cash cow of non-resident hunters.

Wyoming strongly encourages hunters in our part of the state to get their animals tested, however I know several folks who work at the testing lab that do not. We do not harvest sick animals and CWD is not an end of the world concern for us. We've been living with it since it was recognized. No human problems at all and a cattle study in high fenced pens at the G&F research facility showed no transmission to cattle over many years.
The testing here is not inconvenient, district office, state lab , research facility at Sybille, and game check stations all take samples. You can take the lymph nodes out yourself and drop them off at the lab. Seems to me the NR are about the only folks worrying about this around here.
The testing we had done this year due to a study in the area had our results back in less than 2 days, 4 mature bucks taken from property that borders the research facility tested negative. No need to panic if you hunt deer or elk around SE Wyoming.

 

[LostArra]

Wyoming strongly encourages hunters in our part of the state to get their animals tested, however I know several folks who work at the testing lab that do not. We do not harvest sick animals and CWD is not an end of the world concern for us. We've been living with it since it was recognized. No human problems at all and a cattle study in high fenced pens at the G&F research facility showed no transmission to cattle over many years.
The testing here is not inconvenient, district office, state lab , research facility at Sybille, and game check stations all take samples. You can take the lymph nodes out yourself and drop them off at the lab. Seems to me the NR are about the only folks worrying about this around here.
The testing we had done this year due to a study in the area had our results back in less than 2 days, 4 mature bucks taken from property that borders the research facility tested negative. No need to panic if you hunt deer or elk around SE Wyoming.

I respect your view especially as a Wyoming resident but that has not been my experience. Game check stations have never mentioned CWD after being stopped with elk in coolers on multiple occasions. Lab in Laramie is an option if it's open when you drive through. I can remove the lymph nodes. I'm not in a panic but this season I saw two obviously sick elk within 5 miles of each other and it got me thinking about what I'm putting in the freezer. I'm still eating my Wyoming elk but I think the testing procedures and logistics could be improved.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

This and coop's excellent explanation are extremely disheartening but not unexpected. I've always been a neck roast fan. I've got two neck roasts in the freezer from a supposed non-CWD state that I am going to braise slowly and eat as I have in the past. After that I'll probably just bone them out on any future deer. How disappointing.

Just an FYI, I don't believe CWD has been found in pronghorn as of yet, I'll take a neck or such off those if I want still. I've stopped doing anything spinal column related on deer/elk except head removal at the very end.

 

[MuleyFever]

There must have been hundreds of thousands of CWD animals consumed in North America by now...doesn't it seem like it would be obvious if it were harmful to humans?

This is my opinion as well.

Also, this is a prion that can sit in the soil. We talk about the possibility of coming in contact with CWD from infected animals but wouldn’t we also be coming in contact with it in the soil? This prion has had to have been around a long time.

 

[EastMT]

Right now there is no definitive proof that it does affect humans, as far as how long it’s been around, I would say longer than us but who knows.

There are so many problems with diagnosis Creutzfeldt-Jacobs Disease the human variant. It’s like these guys in the NFL with concussions, you can’t be certain until after death looking at tissue samples.

The main concern about wildlife stems from 3 CJD diagnosis’s in the 90’s from guys who ate venison, so that created the concern, and had grown from there. But in all, it’s mostly theories and much is unknown, therefore no need to panic, but it doesn’t hurt to take a few minor precautions just in case.

There was just a case of a man in NY that died of CJD that was known for eating squirrel brains. Did that cause it, or some other wildlife he ate? Hard to tell but taking a pass on eating brains has certainly never hurt anyone.


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[Desk Jockey]

Right now there is no definitive proof that it does affect humans, as far as how long it’s been around, I would say longer than us but who knows.

There are so many problems with diagnosis Creutzfeldt-Jacobs Disease the human variant. It’s like these guys in the NFL with concussions, you can’t be certain until after death looking at tissue samples.

The main concern about wildlife stems from 3 CJD diagnosis’s in the 90’s from guys who ate venison, so that created the concern, and had grown from there. But in all, it’s mostly theories and much is unknown, therefore no need to panic, but it doesn’t hurt to take a few minor precautions just in case.

There was just a case of a man in NY that died of CJD that was known for eating squirrel brains. Did that cause it, or some other wildlife he ate? Hard to tell but taking a pass on eating brains has certainly never hurt anyone.


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There is some evidence of tranmission of CWD to lower primates fed CWD infected meet. Study is ongoing but it is enough to warrant some concern. I think ingestion or direct implantation are the means of transmission being studied. Not to contradict your point about prions in the soil, but I presume you would have to consume the prions and I have not data to indicated how much might be necessary to infect a person. I can say there is a far higher likelihood that I am going to eat several pounds of venison this year vs even one mouthful of dirt.

Transmission | Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) | Prion Disease | CDC

Setting aside what risk may or may not exist for humans, I get concerned about how things could change if wild deer and elk are suddenly, widely considered a potential disease vector that could impact cattle and other livestock.

Given that CWD appears to be resistant to cooking (unlike trichinosis) and there isn’t yet an effective testing regime, it is hard to ignore the issue and there aren’t obvious practical solutions regarding how hunting and harvest practices can be evolved to address CWD. There isn’t even definitive information on if and how it can be transmitted to humans. In the face of that uncertainty, I think the hunting community is best served by a health-minded, cautious approach that doesn’t seek to dismiss any concern outright and advocates prudence until more is known about the disease and its tranmission characteristics. If that means I need to tweak my processing practices and my recipe preferences then so be it.

 

[Split toe]

I think the concern is justified. With most of these prion diseases the onset of disease can sometimes be delayed years, so this is going to be a ongoing investigation for the foreseeable future. It would lead one to believe if other prion diseases can be transmitted to humans, then this one could possibly as well.