New moose rifle? .300 WM vs .338 WM

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Hey guys, hopefully ya'll Can help me think this through. I'm looking at purchasing a new Kimber Montana in either .300WM or .338WM for an AK moose hunt.

I have a 30-06 that is capable, but it not a gun I get the warm fuzzies over and I want to buy a new rifle. So I will.

What are your thoughts on the .300WM vs a .338WM? I feel the .300WM is a little redundant with my 30-06 so I'm leaning towards the .338.

Both have listed weights of 6lbs 13oz and come with 26" barrels (I'd be tempted to cut either down to 23-24")

No intentions of using a brake or shooting it a ton at the range, and I'm not sensitive to recoil. I don't want to shoot long range, 400yd max, probably much closer if at all possible.

It will probably be topped with a VX-6 2-12x42 (or something similar) in talley rings (bad ring choice for a big mag?). So it would likely be an ~8lb gun with scope. I've read the Kimber has good stock geometry and a good recoil pad which I know is very important for how recoil is felt. I've shot my father's .340 weatherby mag in a rifle that is probably about the same weight and it's stout but tolerable.

I wish Barrett made the Fieldcraft in magnums. It would be 1st on my list.

Thanks in advance.
 

sneaky

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Do you reload? Not sure why you think the 300wm is redundant with the 06. Much harder hitting and if you reload you have way more options available in 30cal projectiles than in 338. You can find 300wm ammo everywhere, in much better selection. I'm never gonna say don't buy another gun, but I might go with some different rings on either. Heck just get a 300 RUM and be done

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It's kind of a flip a coin thing with moose. You won't notice an effective difference down range in a typical moose situation.

I do most my Alaska hunting (including moose) with a 30-06, but my "other" gun is a .338. Ballistics are essentially identical to my '06, which is nice, and I could chop the barrel down to more pack friendly 21" without guilt or significantly hurting the value. Uses the same powder selection as my '06 also.

It does recoil MUCH harder than an equal weight .300. A consideration if you are focused on the fairly light Kimber.
 

AKBorn

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Go with the .338, and you can leverage 250 grain or 300 grain rounds for bear if you ever get the urge. An 8 pound .338 though, you're a better man than me. I love my Ruger M77 .338 with a 24 inch barrel and Leupy 2x-8x on top, runs about 9.5 pounds. i'm happy to not go any lighter than that. :)
 

mcseal2

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I personally wouldn't want to shoot the Kimber in either without a brake. I shoot a lot and had a flinch I developed using a 300 win mag for everything from crows and coyotes to deer for years. I re-barreled the 300 to a 264 win mag and shot 22's a lot to get rid of it.

A few years ago I had a new 300WM built. It weighs 8.3lbs with a 3-12x Huskemaw in steel Talley rings, sling, sunshade, and scope caps. It is pleasant to shoot with the brake, but I would not want to shoot it without. The 338 would be stouter yet. As you increase bullet weight you increase recoil I've found on the magnums. A 7mm Rem Mag with a 140gr is a different gun than one with a 175gr for example. As for not shooting it much at the range, range practice only helps so much. I do feel like you need more field practice to shoot a magnum well than a smaller round. I would bet most all guides and more experienced moose hunters would tell you to use the 30-06 you know rather than buy a magnum and not practice with it.

I had a Kimber Montana in 280 Ackley, even with the factory Nosler 140gr Accubond loads it kicked more than I wanted to handle.

My buddy and I took our AK moose this year with 300 win mags. We both used factory Nosler 180gr E tip ammo. I shot my bull broadside at 300yds and hit him twice behind the shoulder, both exited. He went less than 30 yards from the first hit. My buddy took his bull broadside at 500 yards and the bullet exited on it also, it went over backward and died right there. Its a small sample size, but might be a bullet to try if you get a 300.

Hope some of this helps.
 

sneaky

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I personally wouldn't want to shoot the Kimber in either without a brake. I shoot a lot and had a flinch I developed using a 300 win mag for everything from crows and coyotes to deer for years. I re-barreled the 300 to a 264 win mag and shot 22's a lot to get rid of it.

A few years ago I had a new 300WM built. It weighs 8.3lbs with a 3-12x Huskemaw in steel Talley rings, sling, sunshade, and scope caps. It is pleasant to shoot with the brake, but I would not want to shoot it without. The 338 would be stouter yet. As you increase bullet weight you increase recoil I've found on the magnums. A 7mm Rem Mag with a 140gr is a different gun than one with a 175gr for example. As for not shooting it much at the range, range practice only helps so much. I do feel like you need more field practice to shoot a magnum well than a smaller round. I would bet most all guides and more experienced moose hunters would tell you to use the 30-06 you know rather than buy a magnum and not practice with it.

I had a Kimber Montana in 280 Ackley, even with the factory Nosler 140gr Accubond loads it kicked more than I wanted to handle.

My buddy and I took our AK moose this year with 300 win mags. We both used factory Nosler 180gr E tip ammo. I shot my bull broadside at 300yds and hit him twice behind the shoulder, both exited. He went less than 30 yards from the first hit. My buddy took his bull broadside at 500 yards and the bullet exited on it also, it went over backward and died right there. Its a small sample size, but might be a bullet to try if you get a 300.

Hope some of this helps.
Interesting on the 280AI. I've got a Cooper 92 in 280AI and I don't think it kicks any worse than my 7mm08 does, even with 168 Berger hand loads. The brake certainly helps with recoil, but it's a trade off for the noise for sure.

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OP
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Thanks for the input guys, The hunt isn't until fall 2020 so I have some time. I might just try to fall back in love with my 30-06 and take that fed with 180gr TTSX or 179gr ELD-X. (I'd really like to hunt with my bow, but I don't want to go on an expensive hunt like that and handicap myself out of an opportunity to take a bull)

I do reload but haven't in a while and with 2 kids under 2, work and a new house and the projects that go with that, I have to value my personal time and reloading is not something really high up on the list with such good factory ammo available.
 

AKBorn

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180 grain from a .30-06 has probably killed as many or more moose than any other caliber out there! Good factory ammo available for the .06.
 
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How about a .375 H&H Talkeetna? Very similar to the Montana, much less felt recoil than either the .300 or the .338, and a decent choice of bullets to choose from. Since you’re not looking at long range shooting and your going to be hunting in grizzly/brown bear country (not that your two cal. selections couldn’t kill a bear), I’d take a good look at the .375. I’ve killed way more big game with my .375 than any other single rifle I own, and it’s a pleasure to shoot. Anyway, just some food for thought.


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AKBorn

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How about a .375 H&H Talkeetna? Very similar to the Montana, much less felt recoil than either the .300 or the .338, and a decent choice of bullets to choose from. Since you’re not looking at long range shooting and your going to be hunting in grizzly/brown bear country (not that your two cal. selections couldn’t kill a bear), I’d take a good look at the .375. I’ve killed way more big game with my .375 than any other single rifle I own, and it’s a pleasure to shoot. Anyway, just some food for thought.


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Troutbum, can you touch on the felt recoil for the .375? I have heard that it's more of a push than the fast, sharp jolt of a .338 - but when I check my sights each fall at Rabbit Creek Range, I have seen guys sighting in .375s on a Lead Sled, and it sure looks like some serious recoil to my untrained eye.
 
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180 grain from a .30-06 has probably killed as many or more moose than any other caliber out there! Good factory ammo available for the .06.

I know the '06 has killed more moose that all other combined calibers in my (large'ish) family. Not small numbers either since my ancestors and many cousins have been putting them down since the 30's.

The two I'm eating on right now fell to the 180 gr Interbond and a 180 NPT from that caliber.

To be fair, the 57" from the year before that I decked with the .338. Nothing wrong with that one either!
 
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Troutbum, can you touch on the felt recoil for the .375? I have heard that it's more of a push than the fast, sharp jolt of a .338 - but when I check my sights each fall at Rabbit Creek Range, I have seen guys sighting in .375s on a Lead Sled, and it sure looks like some serious recoil to my untrained eye.

That’s the way I would describe it as well. Basically not as sharp or hard of a kick as what I’ve experienced from both the 300 or, especially the 338. My 375 (Winchester model 70 classic s/s, CRF), weighs almost 9.5 lbs., and I don’t have any other 375’s to compare it to, but I have had a 300wm, and I have fired a couple 338’s, both of which were Ruger M77’s, and the felt recoil was much worse on all of those rifles as compared to my 375.
I currently have a 300wsm Kimber Montana, which is a pretty light rifle, and my 375 is much more pleasant to shoot than my 300.


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For what it's worth, I find nothing magically different about .375 recoil. They are reasonable enough to shoot in the typical platforms they come in (ie. heavy guns), but I've had both a 7lb and a 8lb ish versions and they hit you HARD. There was no "push" happening with that 7lb'er in particular! I personally suspect the reason most people can find them tolerable is due to the fact they are rarely found in sub 9lb guns.

My dad's .375 is also a M70 Classic SS, and even with a bobbed 20" barrel it's pushing 10 lbs. Those fat winchester barrels tame the beast nicely.

.375 kicks out a 270 gr bullet at essentially the same velocity that a .338 will do a 250 gr. They really are in pretty similar class from a ballistics standpoint with those weights. The "push" vs "jolt" is simple physics and I'd say it's mostly related to the inertia of the gun the bullet is launched from.
 

mcseal2

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Thanks for the input guys, The hunt isn't until fall 2020 so I have some time. I might just try to fall back in love with my 30-06 and take that fed with 180gr TTSX or 179gr ELD-X. (I'd really like to hunt with my bow, but I don't want to go on an expensive hunt like that and handicap myself out of an opportunity to take a bull)

I do reload but haven't in a while and with 2 kids under 2, work and a new house and the projects that go with that, I have to value my personal time and reloading is not something really high up on the list with such good factory ammo available.

I have limited experience with the ELD-X, just a couple whitetail last year. Long story short, I blew one up on the shoulder of a big buck. It killed him but fragmented about as much as a bullet can. It was still moving 3000fps when it hit (143gr ELD-X from a 264 WM) but I'd personally go for something tougher for a moose. To be fair the doe I shot at 321yds with the same gun showed good performance. Moose hunting can be close though and I want a tough bullet myself. Also bears live there and I'd hate to have a bullet blow up when trying to shut one down if the worst happened.

I still load but I'm in a similar position. I have a 3yr old and an infant now. Dad is slowing down and ranch work takes more time. I'm not wanting to sacrifice time spent shooting for time spent loading so I'm shooting factory stuff in more rifles now. My 264's I handload for because I have proven loads and ammo is hard to find but my 300WM, 25-06, and 223's are now shooting factory stuff. I got frustrated when I couldn't find the primers or powder I needed and found factory ammo that shot as well as my loads so I have stuck with it to save time.
 

USMC2602

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For what it's worth, I find nothing magically different about .375 recoil. They are reasonable enough to shoot in the typical platforms they come in (ie. heavy guns), but I've had both a 7lb and a 8lb ish versions and they hit you HARD. There was no "push" happening with that 7lb'er in particular! I personally suspect the reason most people can find them tolerable is due to the fact they are rarely found in sub 9lb guns.

My dad's .375 is also a M70 Classic SS, and even with a bobbed 20" barrel it's pushing 10 lbs. Those fat winchester barrels tame the beast nicely.

.375 kicks out a 270 gr bullet at essentially the same velocity that a .338 will do a 250 gr. They really are in pretty similar class from a ballistics standpoint with those weights. The "push" vs "jolt" is simple physics and I'd say it's mostly related to the inertia of the gun the bullet is launched from.

Very well stated.
 

AKDoc

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Each fall for many years I've been carrying a 375H&H up here...Browning A-bolt, McMillan stock and Swarovski scope, putting it at around 9lbs.

I handload 270grn TSX's, and I'm getting right around 2800fps out of a Lilja 24" barrel. I have taken quite a few moose and some grizzlies with it, and it has not failed me in performance. It has been and will continue to be my go to rifle each fall up here. It is unpleasant for me to shoot from the bench, and I've got to constantly talk myself through B-R-A-S-S and not flinch in anticipation of the shot, but I'm able to do it with several dry fires between shots.

That said, I've been head shooting the last eight moose I've taken with that 375H&H, and each one was DRT. However, my 30-06 with a 180TSX would have done the job just fine. I'm heading to Kodiak in a couple of weeks for black tail, and I was planning to take my 30-06. Typically, I black tail hunt on POW with a 7mm-08. However, with the recent increase in bear encounters on Kodiak, I might change my mind and bring my 375H&H to the rock. It's nice to have that option.

My suggestion to the OP is to stay with your 30-06 with 180's for the moose hunt...practice, and get really good with it.
 
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BRWNBR

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I shoot a 5lb 11oz 416 ruger. Owned a 6.2lb 416 rem and a 9.5lb 416 rem. Shot sub 7lb 375’s and 10lb 375’s. I’ve had 14 year old kids shoot my 5lb 416. What Ive come up with is this.
Mathematical recoil is one thing. Felt recoil is something different. Barrel length, weight caliber don’t mean as much as stock design. Don’t let numbers on paper scare you off from a gun. Two identical guns with different stocks will shoot totally different.
 
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I shoot a 5lb 11oz 416 ruger. Owned a 6.2lb 416 rem and a 9.5lb 416 rem. Shot sub 7lb 375’s and 10lb 375’s. I’ve had 14 year old kids shoot my 5lb 416. What Ive come up with is this.
Mathematical recoil is one thing. Felt recoil is something different. Barrel length, weight caliber don’t mean as much as stock design. Don’t let numbers on paper scare you off from a gun. Two identical guns with different stocks will shoot totally different.

Can you expand on this. What design features specifically aid in that for a stock? I'm curious as well. I have noticed that to a smaller degree shooting different firearms, but I'd like to understand that more to be able to plan better for an upcoming LW.
 

BRWNBR

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For me I have to have them cut down to about a 12.5” length of pull. Minimal drop at comb seems to create a straighter recoil with less felt recoil. Monte Carlo style stocks to me are the worse. A smaller forend that you can actually hold helps to control the rifle as well.
 

bc guide

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I have the Montana .338 I love it ! The felt recoil with that stock is a lot less than my Remington. No need for a brake imo
 
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