Cardio Advice needed

[Maus1322]

This may be a longer thread but i need some help from you experts out there. Right now I'm 6'5 258 lbs and wanting to get ready for 4th season of elk hunting in Colorado. Our average hunting will be approximately 9200-9800 ft. We will be going on day hunts in some pretty nasty terrain.

Now a little back story this is my second trip elk hunting. Last year I was lucky enough to hunt and kill a 6x6 bull opening day approximately 3 hours in. Not much to learn from since it happened SOOO fast but i feel like it was one of the luckiest moments of my life. I set the bar very high for this year and was very humbled by the experience.

The one thing i was humbled by most was the lack of shape i was in. I thought that the P90X would be good enough... Boy was i wrong. I died and was reborn more then once in those mountains considering in four days our group packed out 5 elk! Since that happened i have been averaging 4 times a week in a gym and i am 30 lbs lighter then last season. Those Rockies sure do motivate a fella.

Ok now for the request. For you guys out here already in great cardio shape. I have been mainly focusing on weight loss and strength gaining and now want to go into cardio for the next few months. Does anyone here have any suggestions for where to go for a good plan. I am NO body builder and the exercise thing is something I am new at. Maybe one of you have a good plan so i can make it up and down those mountains without feeling like I'm going to pass out from lack of oxygen.

Thankyou to all of you who read this and i appreciate any assistance. I just want to be more prepared this year!!!

 

[Bearlodge10]

Sounds like you are doing pretty good. If you are 30 pounds down and working out in a consistent way, then there is not much more you can do. However, there are somethings that you leave out that might get you a little more feedback. For instance, where are you coming from to hunt at that elevation? What are you doing for your training now? If you are focused on weight loss, are you dieting to do this? or is it a combination of diet and increased activity? Answer those questions and there will be more folks to chime in. By the way, I am no expert but try to be in the best shape I can be in when the hunting starts. Even the most fit can suck wind when the going gets steep and the packs get heavy.

 

[Maus1322]

Thanks Bearlodge10. I am coming from ND which is FLAAAAT first of all. I am also not totally dieting but i am controlling what i eat. I am only taking whey proteins currently for supplements which I don't think I really need. The working out I have been completing is a plan from MTN OPS. Lately I have been hitting the gym 4-6 times weekly focusing on different muscle groups( Shoulders, Arms, Back, Legs, ETC.). Each workout is approximately 1 hour. At the end of each of these workouts I do about a 10 min mile on the elliptical or treadmill. Is this enough? I have hit a plateau currently and will bust through it I think with this new plan. I am approximately 4 months into this workout as well.

 

[JP7]

Since you have experience with Beachbody programs, definitely look at insanity and insanity max 30. But make sure your feet, ankles, knees and hips are good first. Max 30 would be a little better off because they have a modifier that can be on screen the whole time. I’m biased though because insanity programs are my favorite cardio workouts with 400 meter repeats being a close second.


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[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Heavy pack hikes and some strength / core routines mixed with weighted box stepping (cardio and engages the uphill muscles) worked really well for me last year. I took a lot of cues from the mountain tactical institute backcountry preseason program. Cardio alone fell short in prior years, being able to run an X min mile doesn’t necessarily translate to mountain performance when working new muscles hard and the pack weight kicks in. If your body has that strength you won’t be working yourself as hard and will be sucking less wind and/or via the training you inherently will be able to perform/recover from the cardio loading.

 

[OXN939]

This may be a longer thread but i need some help from you experts out there. Right now I'm 6'5 258 lbs and wanting to get ready for 4th season of elk hunting in Colorado. Our average hunting will be approximately 9200-9800 ft. We will be going on day hunts in some pretty nasty terrain.

Now a little back story this is my second trip elk hunting. Last year I was lucky enough to hunt and kill a 6x6 bull opening day approximately 3 hours in. Not much to learn from since it happened SOOO fast but i feel like it was one of the luckiest moments of my life. I set the bar very high for this year and was very humbled by the experience.

The one thing i was humbled by most was the lack of shape i was in. I thought that the P90X would be good enough... Boy was i wrong. I died and was reborn more then once in those mountains considering in four days our group packed out 5 elk! Since that happened i have been averaging 4 times a week in a gym and i am 30 lbs lighter then last season. Those Rockies sure do motivate a fella.

Ok now for the request. For you guys out here already in great cardio shape. I have been mainly focusing on weight loss and strength gaining and now want to go into cardio for the next few months. Does anyone here have any suggestions for where to go for a good plan. I am NO body builder and the exercise thing is something I am new at. Maybe one of you have a good plan so i can make it up and down those mountains without feeling like I'm going to pass out from lack of oxygen.

Thankyou to all of you who read this and i appreciate any assistance. I just want to be more prepared this year!!!

Run. Especially with the elevation component you mentioned, your VO2 Max is really the most important variable in consideration, and running for distance is far and away the most effective way to improve it. There are a thousand programs out there you can google, but try to be comfortable completing a 5K at a decent pace before your hunt.

 

[FlyGuy]

Sounds like you are most of the way there. The added strength from the lifting plus the drop in excess weight is going to make a huge difference this Fall. I would really only suggest that you add in running. I don't think there is a better exercise to increase your overall conditioning and Make your body run more efficiently. You can mix in biking and swimming, even rowing to change it up; but running is the most simple & cheapest.

(BTW, don't cheap out on running shoes. That's the only investment running requires and it makes a difference. If you have one nearby, then go to a store that specializes in running so that they can put you in the correct shoe for your feet/gait. If you can't, then be aware of how your body feels. If you develop shin splints I would not try to push through them. I just means your shoes are not the right match (underpronated/over-pronated, etc). Try different shoes)

That is what has really made the difference for me. I now do X-Fit 3x/week for strength. The high intensity workouts also help with my overall conditioning and have really improved my recovery time. Then I run 3x/week. Currently anywhere from 3mi to 13 mi/run. Long runs are usually on trails. Anyone of those run days can be replaced by a rucking day on trails, but I average 2 days/month. Need to spend more time on them in the next two months.

Best of Luck! It will always feel miserable getting up that mtn no matter how much better shape you are in, but it sure is a lot more fun when you don't think you are going to die from it!

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[Gatorgrizz27]

I absolutely hate running, and am not going to do long distance runs. The problem I have is getting my heart rate up and myself out of breath quickly so I can push myself in another workout. I’ve found that a sprinting interval workout does this for me in 10 minutes, so I’ll actually do it, and the nice thing is you don’t have to change anything as you get in better shape, you’ll just end up running further.

Jog for 60 seconds to warm up
Sprint for 60 seconds
Walk for 30 seconds
Sprint 60
Walk 30
Sprint 60
Walk 90
Run/jog 3:30

Doing that then going into some other workout seems to make it much more effective for me.

 

[Brightwhite]

Intervals are good and effective like the post above.

For what you described, and some others addressed this above, but it sounds like you just need to throw some weight in a pack then get on a treadmill walk uphill, do box step ups, or if you have access to a gym with a stepmill then that’s the ultimate for me. I travel a ton for work and I know in certain city’s where the hotels are with stepmills and I try to take advantage when I have access to one.

For me I like two incorporate 2 cardio sessions a week, and once I hit July both usually include a pack for some or all of it. Don’t over think it, do 200-300 box step ups then get on the treadmill and crank it up to 15% incline and go for another 30 mins...something simple like that. I just try to move with the pack on for an hour and then if I’m feeling good and have the time then go longer. Start with 30lb pack and I usually don’t ever got over 50lb personally...some guys do, nothing wrong with that.

Then on the other 3-4 days a week I like to do light cardio as A warmup then lift. If I’m feeling good I’ll do more of a HITT workout, if you’re feeling worn down just lift and take breaks between sets.

 

[Hawkeye5964]

My knees just can’t take the pounding from running so I do box step ups and kettlebell squats. Go as long as you can and then do more. I have found that my cardio is better than you think if you have stronger legs especially if you pace yourself at elevation. I also believe that most people can go much further and hunt longer if they understand what their body can take. You have a baseline from last year and you most certainly can go further and hunt longer than last year. Good luck with your training and hunt.

 

[5MilesBack]

Throw some jumping rope into your workouts.

 

[sveltri]

There is another thread with a rucking prep program, I've been doing it for a few weeks now and the results are pretty awesome. Do a search for "Training Program for Rucking", there is also an associated podcast "The Hunt Backcountry Podcast" episode 132 "How to Hike Heavy"

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Run. Especially with the elevation component you mentioned, your VO2 Max is really the most important variable in consideration, and running for distance is far and away the most effective way to improve it. There are a thousand programs out there you can google, but try to be comfortable completing a 5K at a decent pace before your hunt.

If we're giving advice for packing loads in the mountains then no this doesn't translate that well. Toss a 80lb load on a 5min mile runner and send them up and down some ridges and see how that goes versus the guy that can only run a 10min mile but has been packing loads, box stepping, and doing strength work (which if you're doing all these right you'll have your pulse up...).

After years of just thinking I needed cardio and then chewing up my legs in the mountains I set out to get "sport specific" last year and it was SO much more comfortable. If you're box stepping right your pulse is hammering away just fine, you're engaging slope muscles and you're not pounding on your body nearly as much vs the running impact. You can do long grind sessions on the box or interval work going hard with short breaks (like running speed work), etc. Bonus you can add a weighted pack to your stepping (less load than for pack hikes) and you are increasing strength in your legs as well, again without the pounding. That isn't to say running has no place and mixing in a day or two of running is great to keep things mixed up, it just isn't the main factor in mountain hunting performance where heavy loads factor in which take strength. If you are stronger in the right ways then you aren't working as hard in terms of percentage of your capabilities and that factors into sustained performance in the mountains which is different than endurance running.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Throw some jumping rope into your workouts.

With or without Survivor playing in the background?

 

[P Carter]

Love these threads. You are going to get a lot of different advice, which is fine.

My two cents, coming from someone who focuses mainly on running. (Currently. In the past I've worked on trail crews, did some boxing, ultra-running, so I have some good experience hiking, HITT-type workouts, solely long runs, and various mixes of the same.)

-Running alone won't get you in mountain shape.
-Strength work alone won't get you in mountain shape.
-Anaerobic work alone (sprints & intervals) won't get you in mountain shape.
-Everyone's "mountain shape" is different, depending on preference, body type, etc.
-Regardless of a personal mix, "mountain shape" involves a melding of strength, anaerobic capacity, and aerobic capacity. Periods of high output mixed with long, sustained periods of medium to low output.
-It seems that you have the strength down, possibly anaerobic capacity down (depending on whether and the extent to which your strength workouts spike heartrate and breathing), but need to work on aerobic fitness to achieve the ability to maintain sustained periods of medium to low output.
-I think you can gain that aerobic base by running (not too fast...comfortable heartrate), hiking (again, comfortable pace), biking or otherwise. Perhaps substitute two strength workouts per week for two aerobic sessions. I'm biased, but I'd choose running. I find that running helps in numerous ways: strengthening feet and ankles; working on your ability to moderate effort/keep heartrate down; being comfortable with some degree of discomfort. But running does carry an increased risk of injury. The same goals can likely be accomplished with hiking.

Like I said, my two cents! Worth the price charged!

 

[OXN939]

If we're giving advice for packing loads in the mountains then no this doesn't translate that well. Toss a 80lb load on a 5min mile runner and send them up and down some ridges and see how that goes versus the guy that can only run a 10min mile but has been packing loads, box stepping, and doing strength work.

I agree. Nobody who is new to regular exercise, as the OP states he is, will be running anywhere near a 5:00 mile any time in the next 60 days. He states that he wants to lose weight and gain cardiovascular capacity, and in the short amount of time we're talking about, running is by far the best way to do that if there are no physical contraindications.

I'd certainly recommend doing some resistance training a few times a week, but running is undoubtedly one of the most effective and underutilized ways to become athletically versatile.

 

[Ross]

Lots of good advice and options just be sure to get that heart rate up and thensustained for periods of time the season is getting close so don’t want an injury now to derail things....you can mix in intervals a few times a week to simulate climbs or sustained output and stay injury free I would opt for treadmill stairclimber or step ups over running as something to add this close to season.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I agree. Nobody who is new to regular exercise, as the OP states he is, will be running anywhere near a 5:00 mile any time in the next 60 days. He states that he wants to lose weight and gain cardiovascular capacity, and in the short amount of time we're talking about, running is by far the best way to do that if there are no physical contraindications.

I'd certainly recommend doing some resistance training a few times a week, but running is undoubtedly one of the most effective and underutilized ways to become athletically versatile.

Just was saying 5min mile to make the point. Your advice was correct for the way he phrased the question but I was introducing the aspect that his question is a bit off course for his ultimate goal.

Having the best lung capacity in the world doesn't mean jack if your legs are torn up when you start climbing up and down steep slopes, which is exactly what will happen to someone that is mainly a runner (I've been there). He might not get the max improvement on VO2 max walking with a heavy pack and box stepping and doing grind sessions of core work but if he's working those hard his pulse will be up and thus he'll improve that as well as working the right muscles for what he ultimately wants to do in terms of performance: be more comfortable hunting/hauling in the mountains.

 

[P Carter]

Just was saying 5min mile to make the point. Your advice was correct for the way he phrased the question but I was introducing the aspect that his question is a bit off course for his ultimate goal.

Having the best lung capacity in the world doesn't mean jack if your legs are torn up when you start climbing up and down steep slopes, which is exactly what will happen to someone that is mainly a runner (I've been there). He might not get the max improvement on VO2 max walking with a heavy pack and box stepping and doing grind sessions of core work but if he's working those hard his pulse will be up and thus he'll improve that as well as working the right muscles for what he ultimately wants to do in terms of performance: be more comfortable hunting/hauling in the mountains.

Just to spice things up, I actually don't agree with this, based solely on my experience. When I was working on a trail crew hiking all day and hauling heavy loads, I thought for sure my friends and their 5-minute-mile shape but puny muscles wouldn't be able to keep up with me backpacking. They did. Without a problem. Immediately robbed me of what I thought would be an "I-told-you-so" moment. Based in part on that experience, and my experience changing sports and workouts, that there are many different ways to be in shape; but never underestimate a scrawny scrappy person who puts in dozens of miles doing what others consider too miserable to do.

But, again in my personal experience, I do better in the mountains when I have a mix of running (20-25 miles per week), hiking with pack, and strength work than ultra-running training (60ish miles a week on hillu trails). I think it has to do with the ability to switch from high-output to low output, and also on flexibility for hiking off trail.

 

[sveltri]

Just to spice things up, I actually don't agree with this, based solely on my experience. When I was working on a trail crew hiking all day and hauling heavy loads, I thought for sure my friends and their 5-minute-mile shape but puny muscles wouldn't be able to keep up with me backpacking. They did. Without a problem. Immediately robbed me of what I thought would be an "I-told-you-so" moment. Based in part on that experience, and my experience changing sports and workouts, that there are many different ways to be in shape; but never underestimate a scrawny scrappy person who puts in dozens of miles doing what others consider too miserable to do.

But, again in my personal experience, I do better in the mountains when I have a mix of running (20-25 miles per week), hiking with pack, and strength work than ultra-running training (60ish miles a week on hillu trails). I think it has to do with the ability to switch from high-output to low output, and also on flexibility for hiking off trail.

I think its easy to confuse "strength" with "size", that scrawny guy could be very strong or very weak. Ultimately we are talking about moving heavy things on our backs over varied terrain. Heavy is relative, could just be you and your gear, meat excluded. Neither strength nor stamina is the absolute best, but rather a ratio that works best for you. An example that helped put things in perspective for me had to do with 2 guys, 1 very strong not much if any cardio and the other not very strong but excellent cardio. The goal was to get a refrigerator up 20 flights of stairs. who wins? The stronger you are the easier it is to move a load. I don't think of strength as how much you can curl or bench press, but rather how heavy a pack you can safely take from the ground to standing and loaded on your back.