When is a binocular "bright enough?"

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In my never-ending quest to find the "perfect" binocular for me, I've owned and sold probably close to 40 pairs over the past 4-5 years. I know, I know, it's an illness... LOL But at least I admit to being a binoholic.

After having the chance to finally get two pairs of binoculars that I consider the "holy grail" in their price point - the Ziess Conquest HD and the Swarovski SLC, along with several other fine pairs of hunting optics, a question came up in my head. When is a binocular "bright enough" for hunting purposes?

What I mean by that is this - at some point, you can't see the reticle in your hunting scope or the sights on your bow (or your arrow if like me you hunt with traditional gear) so what difference does it make if you can still see 200-300 yards with your binoculars? At that point, you're not taking a shot anyway and it may not even be legal to hunt.

My Zeiss Conquest HD's and several pairs I've owned before them, were at least as bright as my Leupold rifle scopes (which are plenty bright) and once I can no longer see what I'm after in those scopes, it's time to pack it in and head to camp.

Yesterday evening I was watching a group of does well after twilight. There were stars all over the sky and I could just make out the 3 deer at 200 yards and were pretty sure they were all does (but not 100%). Out of curiosity I put my rifle scope up and I could just barely make out the deer. No way I could determine antlers at that point. It was at least 30 min. after legal shooting hours.

So what I am wondering is when is "enough enough" with brightness? Is the ability to see antlers 30 minutes after legal shooting hours (or before) instead of 20 minutes, really worth it? How much are we willing to pay for those 10 minutes, 2 or 3 times a year (if that)?

I guess that's a personal question for each of us, but looking through my rifle scope in that dim light really made me wonder. Putting sharpness aside, just how much light do my binoculars really NEED to gather?
 

Xlr8n

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I'm not a western hunter, nor am I a guide, but I'd venture to guess that for the guy that makes his living guiding hunters out west and needs to find that special bull or ram that may be hiding in the shadows to go after the next morning, every last bit of viewing light is needed, wanted, and is worth whatever increase in optical price. For that guy the extra 2% is worth the extra dollars. For the rest of the folks, probably not so much, (although for some folks simply having 'the best' is reason enough for them).
 
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Newtosavage
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I'm not a western hunter, nor am I a guide, but I'd venture to guess that for the guy that makes his living guiding hunters out west and needs to find that special bull or ram that may be hiding in the shadows to go after the next morning, every last bit of viewing light is needed, wanted, and is worth whatever increase in optical price. For that guy the extra 2% is worth the extra dollars. For the rest of the folks, probably not so much, (although for some folks simply having 'the best' is reason enough for them).

I suppose. For people who make their living using tools, then yea, the best tools make perfect sense.

This forum seems full of folks who don't know how to say "good enough," which is awesome, but that mentality probably also leads a lot of people into buying gear they don't actually need. Which again, is awesome when you scour the classifieds like I do. :D
 

Blue72

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I think this is a individual question

Even if it’s not legal to take a shot, doesn’t mean you want to stop scouting for the next morning. Such as finding where turkeys roost.

Plus others like me enjoy astronomy at night. So aperture is more important then others, who are only using them during the daytime
 

MattB

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What if it is overcast and as dark during the last 10 minutes of shooting light on the last day of a once-in-a-lifetime hunt as it was 30 minutes after legal shooting light when you were doing your test? I want all I can get w/in reason.

Sometimes you will be able to find deer earlier than legal shooting light that may move into cover shortly thereafter. That extra time may mean the difference between success and tag soup.
 
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Newtosavage
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What if it is overcast and as dark during the last 10 minutes of shooting light on the last day of a once-in-a-lifetime hunt as it was 30 minutes after legal shooting light when you were doing your test? I want all I can get w/in reason.

Sometimes you will be able to find deer earlier than legal shooting light that may move into cover shortly thereafter. That extra time may mean the difference between success and tag soup.

I suppose if a person "what if's" enough, they will end up with Swaro SLC's (like I have, twice now). LOL

The past week has been very overcast and drizzling rain/sleet. I've hunted until the very last light four evenings in a row now. Three of those, I had three pairs of binoculars with me. They were all able to take me well beyond legal shooting hours. I mean like 20-30 min. beyond. After I could no longer see the reticle in my scope, all three bins (SLC's, Zeiss Conquests and Bushnell Legend M's) showed me subjects 100-200 yards out just fine. Heck, the starlight was enough to see quite a bit in with all of them. So that's when I started to ask myself the question, when "bright enough" was enough.

I hunted for 30+ years with either no binoculars or inexpensive 8x32's and killed plenty of game. If I don't tag out, it's not going to be because my binoculars didn't allow me to see something 30 minutes before or after legal shooting hours instead of 20.
 

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If you're a mile from what you're glassing at 30+ minutes before sunrise, it makes a huge difference. If you can't see them, they might as well not exist. But if you can see them, you can plan your next move.

I've looked through some really crappy binos over the years. Looking through the Vortex Viper 15x50's was like someone had turned out the lights completely. My buddy used to have a pair of Leupold Mojave 10x50's......so an exit pupil of 5.0. We had set up camp and he walked over to a spot where he could glass this open ridge side that was 1.7 miles away. He yells over that he sees some elk but can't make much out. I was finishing up in camp and by the time I grabbed my Kahles 10x42's (less exit pupil than his) he walks up and says "you can't see anything anymore, it's too dark". It was probably right at 30 minutes after sunset and it was dark enough that I couldn't have shot my bow if I wanted to. But I walked over and looked at the ridge side through my binos and immediately saw elk on it. I could clearly see that one of them was a bull because of his size and his coloring, but couldn't make out his antlers very well. My buddy walks over with his binos and it's nothing but darkness through them.

So to answer your question, they need to be bright enough to see what you want to see, when you want to see it.
 

5MilesBack

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So did you actually go after that group of elk the next day?

Of course. But some other hunters passed our camp at 0300 while we were still in bed. I was laying there thinking "what on earth are they doing this early". When we got back there at first light, they were literally all sitting right in the middle of that ridge side spaced out every hundred yards or so along the entire length, like 6 guys. So even if the elk had still been there when they went in in the dark with their headlamps, they certainly weren't going to be there after they lined the ridge side.
 

cwegga

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If think it mostly depends on how you hunt. If you hunt from a tree stand or blind with a trade bow then you probably need binos that can identify antlers at 20 yards or so during shooting light... The way I hunt we usually drive out well before first light and have a couple of small mountains to glass over in our preferred spot. We start glassing as soon as we can see anything and usually finish around legal sunrise or so. Depending on what we see we will decide which mountain to hike around/over to most likely set up shot if we saw a legal deer.

Being able to see before shooting light can be very valuable. Sometimes we barely catch the deer before they walk out of sight if they start moving early. Not seeing them and walking the wrong way can either push them off too fast to get a shot or out you in the wrong place with no deer. I can't think of a time when seeing animals after shooting light would have even been a thing I cared about. I really think it's all about how you hunt. That being said, I have cheap binos because I have other things to spend money on rather than the small amount of time I hunt every year so I guess it doesn't really matter.
 
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cwegga, I have done and still do both. I bowhunt (with trad bows) in very thick cover from blinds and tree stands, and I have glassed mountainsides from a window mount 2 miles away long before sunrise. Honestly, I think both situations put equal demands on optics. I might be trying to see a forked antler through heavy brush at 32 yards, 5 minutes before legal shooting light on a heavy overcast morning. That's a tall order, just as is glassing into the sunrise across a mountain valley (or two).

But for me to sit here and say the difference between the SLC's and my Conquest HD's could make or break a hunt? Pshhh. I can't say that with a straight face.

As I said earlier, a guy can "what if" himself into any piece of gear he wants. I'm more of a "get what you need and go hunt" kinda guy. Hell, I don't even think I "need" the Conquests to be honest. I've managed to do just fine for over 40 years with much, much less. I'm not "that guy" who is going to try and convince anyone else - or myself - that I just have to have the top of the line gear in every category or else I won't have a chance of filling a tag.
 

BluMtn

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As others have mentioned it is not how far past shooting light light, but how early before shooting light. I am one of those that are on the trail long before light so that I can be "on the mountain" before light to start glassing the hillsides while comfortably hidden under a nice tree. I don't know how many times I have been watching deer or elk at first light and see their heads come up and start staring at an area only to look in that direction myself and see somebody coming up the trail. Last light is ok, but I am more interested in the morning light trying to catch them going back into the timber. And quality glass does that.
 
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Brendan

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2016 I was up at 2:45 for a long hike in the dark to work my way to the edge of a remote clearing in the dark. Less than 5 minutes before legal shooting light I was able to make out movement of an Elk in the open coming towards me. I was able to get my swaro scope on him, clearly count tines and identify him as a legal, branch antlered bull, and shoot him right at legal light. It was still dark enough that when he collapsed in the open 50 yards in front of me, I didn't see him go down with the naked eye.

Good glass got me that bull, and I've had the exact same thing happen with whitetails in the timber, and also have had them cost me an opportunity.

No more cheap glass for me - Scopes, binos, or spotters.
 
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2016 I was up at 2:45 for a long hike in the dark to work my way to the edge of a remote clearing in the dark. Less than 5 minutes before legal shooting light I was able to make out movement of an Elk in the open coming towards me. I was able to get my swaro scope on him, clearly count tines and identify him as a legal, branch antlered bull, and shoot him right at legal light. It was still dark enough that when he collapsed in the open 50 yards in front of me, I didn't see him go down with the naked eye.

Good glass got me that bull, and I've had the exact same thing happen with whitetails in the timber, and also have had them cost me an opportunity.

No more cheap glass for me - Scopes, binos, or spotters.

The question wasn't really about "cheap" but rather when is enough enough for your needs. I guess it's an open ended question, but if all we want is "more" than that really only leaves one option and everything else is "subpar."
 

Brendan

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I guess my point was - it needs to work right at the first and last minute of shooting light.

I've had other scopes and binos that many people like and consider great options not work in those scenarios, and cost me a shot at an animal.
The question wasn't really about "cheap" but rather when is enough enough for your needs. I guess it's an open ended question, but if all we want is "more" than that really only leaves one option and everything else is "subpar."
 
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I have glassed up many many animals that I did not harvest the day I glassed them up, but later in the hunt, that otherwise I would have never known were there if it weren't for good glass at first or last light. I am sure that many here have experienced the same thing. Glass is worth it's weight in gold, and good glass simply weighs more. The weight penalty is well worth it.
 
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I have glassed up many many animals that I did not harvest the day I glassed them up, but later in the hunt, that otherwise I would have never known were there if it weren't for good glass at first or last light. I am sure that many here have experienced the same thing. Glass is worth it's weight in gold, and good glass simply weighs more. The weight penalty is well worth it.

So how much gold does one need to carry? I think that's the question here. As much as they can afford, or as much as they really need?

I guess there is no real answer because we can hunt just fine without any optics at all. Elk were nearly wiped off the continent, mostly without optics. I suppose this is where the old advice of "get the best glass you can afford" comes in, but what I'm saying is that at some point, it becomes a luxury vs. necessity. I mean, if you left those Swaros at the truck, you're still going to go hunting.

In the scenario above, those six guys sitting on that ridge could have had $100 bins or no bins at all, and still had the advantage over the guy with the best optics available.
 
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So how much gold does one need to carry? I think that's the question here. As much as they can afford, or as much as they really need?

I guess there is no real answer because we can hunt just fine without any optics at all. Elk were nearly wiped off the continent, mostly without optics. I suppose this is where the old advice of "get the best glass you can afford" comes in, but what I'm saying is that at some point, it becomes a luxury vs. necessity. I mean, if you left those Swaros at the truck, you're still going to go hunting.

In the scenario above, those six guys sitting on that ridge could have had $100 bins or no bins at all, and still had the advantage over the guy with the best optics available.

Your asking a question that only the individual person can answer for themselves, no one else.
 

5MilesBack

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I use my binos more in non-hunting situations than I ever do in actual hunting situations. I'm a steep thick timber archery elk hunter that enjoys the interaction and experience with up close bulls. I'll use my 8x32's maybe just a couple times in an entire season. I could easily hunt without them, but might as well stay home if I don't have my bugle tube.
 
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