10mm bear defense

[Beendare]

Maybe bears don't psychologically give up in the same way (they run instead of dropping?) or at the same rate?...but amazingly multiple different handguns have still been effective, even with less good bullet choices at times.

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5OOVWnF5M

Yeah, thats^ a great study...quoted here many times by myself and others.

I've seen a bear take off from the muzzle blast of a pistol shot to deter the bear....so yeah, that can work too without actually hitting it. Does't hurt to try that tactic early in the encounter.......it might work.

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[Teaman1]

I’ve often wondered about a lot of comments saying that a bear will be more “pissed off” if shot, and come at you harder. I only know one person who has been charged by a grizzly. In his 1 experience, the grizz was hit center mass. It rolled head over heels, got up and ran off. This is one reason I’m really looking into a back up gun and I generally try to find the best “tool” for the job

 

[Kevin Dill]

You know....until you or I actually use a sidearm to defend from attack....we are all just rationalizing theorists attempting to justify our choice as being a good one. Maybe the best one.

In one scenario a 10mm SA might be best. Another one...a big revolver clearly better. If we all spent as much time practicing our defensive shooting as we do theorizing and postulating on what is the best gun, round, holster etc....it probably wouldn't matter what gun we carried. We'd be more accurate and THAT is the best indicator of outcome when bullet meets bruin.

 

[mcseal2]

Just like picking a rifle for a hunt. If I know my shot will be inside 100 yards I would use my lever action with a 1-4x scope. If I knew it would be at 500 yards I’d take the heavy barrel bolt gun with the 5-30x. I never know ahead of time so I usually go with the light 300 win mag bolt action with a 3-12x. Not perfect for anything but easy to carry and capable of most anything.

I’ve practiced with both revolvers and 10mm’s. Right now I don’t shoot the 44 as well as the 10mm or 357 due to recoil.

The 10mm beats the 357 for me just because of the light rail and night sights. The power of both is close enough I consider them equal. If I start shooting the 44 better or get some lighter recoiling underwood ammo tried that I shoot better I will consider switching.

Benefit of all my testing is all the shooting I am doing with the different guns. I wouldn’t argue that I would be better off just shooting the heck out of one platform rather that the revolvers, 1911, and Glock. I have always shot lots of different guns though and never had a problem operating the one I am using at the time. Its not like being charged shooting in the yard but shooting is shooting and better than nothing.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I figure that it's my life that I'm concerned with and I'll pick what makes me feel comfortable. I sell guns at a store and I've seen people buy everything from a .380 to .50 for bear handguns, to each their own. The people that chose the .380 were an older couple that felt that they didn't really want to kill a brown bear, they just wanted to scare it and their "gun expert" friend recommended that caliber - whatever. I've heard just about ever silly assumption that anybody could ever come up with.

Trigger pull on a revolver isn't going to add enough time to your response to even be concerned with. A Glock 20 has a 5-6 pound pull weight from the factory, my S&W 329P has a 6 pound pull weight in single action and around 9 pounds in double action and I practice cocking the gun as I draw it from my chest rig so my first shot is a single action shot. As for the length of time it takes to pull the trigger on my double action vs. a semi-auto gun, well that's pretty minimal too because I do practice a lot, I can average 2 well aimed shots in 3 seconds, I can rattle all 6 shots off in about 5 or 6 seconds but my groups at 15 feet will be about 15 inches. I can't shoot quite as well as Jerry Miculek (he can shoot 6 rounds of 180gr .44mag from a S&W 629 in just over 1 second) but I suspect that I wouldn't do much better with a Glock 20 than what I can do with the 329P. Technique and skill will have more to do with how long it takes you to respond than the mechanical operation of the gun. With the adrenaline pumping you wont even notice the difference between the two pistols.

The only things being said that I agree with by the semi-auto people is that if you should use the gun that you can handle best, as long it's more powerful than a .380.

I agree the pull weight isn’t really going to matter when the adrenaline is going, it’s easier to short stroke a revolver though.

 

[jonpall]

Some people just don't shoot larger calibers well. If you can't shoot it well, probably not the best choice, regardless of caliber.

 

[mcseal2]

Cant argue that. The day I can shoot my 44 as fast and accurate as my 357 or 10mm is likely the day I start thinking hard about carrying it instead. Until that day I will keep practicing with the 44 but carrying one of the others. I will keep practicing with them too. Adequate energy and better accuracy trumps more energy and less accuracy for me. I like them all but carry what I shoot best.

 

[longbarrel]

My preference is the Super Blackhawk .44 with full power loads and lots of practice in IHMSA silhouette shooting.

 

[jonpall]

Cant argue that. The day I can shoot my 44 as fast and accurate as my 357 or 10mm is likely the day I start thinking hard about carrying it instead. Until that day I will keep practicing with the 44 but carrying one of the others. I will keep practicing with them too. Adequate energy and better accuracy trumps more energy and less accuracy for me. I like them all but carry what I shoot best.

Smart approach

 

[Kevin87]

I like the idea of 15 rds with the 10mm vs 6. I carry a Colt Python but have been considering the 10mm. Those wheel guns get heavy hiking day after day in a chest holster.

 

[Beendare]

After some serious testing; I'm moving from a .44 revolver to the G20Sf with Double Tap 200gr hardcast ammo as my backup.

I can shoot the Glock so much faster with better accuracy its nuts.
Maybe its because I've burned through over 3 cases of ammo in those semi autos this summer? /grin

A guy can get a lot higher on a semi auto to control muzzle flip over a revolver.
I have to be at 3 to 1 on accurate shots with the 10mm vs .44.

 

[Outlaw99]

I’ve shot big bore handguns forever and I’m comfortable with them. I recently picked up a Smith 329pd and I love it as a packable backcountry defense gun. First thing I did was replace the factory sights with trinium night sights. For ME, it’s the perfect last chance pistol.

 

[Teaman1]

[QUOTE="A guy can get a lot higher on a semi auto to control muzzle flip over a revolver.
I have to be at 3 to 1 on accurate shots with the 10mm vs .44.
[/QUOTE]

You get 3 10mm shots off to 1 shot of 44 mag?

 

[MattB]

I haven't shot that many bears with my bow, but regardless of whether they were unaware or coming to the call they either turned and ran or reacted violently to the hit. Regardless, none kept on with what it was doing just before being hit. That may speak to why the statistic of 97% success of defending a bear charge with a handgun comes from. There may very well be instances where a determined bear shrugs off a bullet impact and keeps charging, but anecdotal evidence suggests those instances may be uncommon.

 

[jorgensen.travis]

I can see the benefit in using a Glock if that’s what you practice with for regular carry. However, I think it’s worth pointing out that the muscle memory likely won’t transfer to a backpack situation. I’ve never seen a great holster option for a Glock. I may someday go the Glock route because of weight saving, but I think I’d have to make the holster myself. I like to carry my revolver just under my pack belt in a cowboy style holster. I don’t want a shoulder holster because there’s enough going on with the pack and the Bino harness. Also, I don’t like the idea of holstering it while pointing at my arm in the backcountry. I don’t like it on the Bino harness because it puts too much forward drag on the harness. I’m not mounting it on my pack belt because I don’t always have my pack on. I might consider a thigh holster, but I feel like it would be annoying and hard to draw quickly.


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[Doc Holliday]

Does anybody shoot a Springfield XD-M (4.5 or 5.25)? If so, doesn't it come with a fully supported barrel? Are any modifications required to shoot the big nasty hard casts from Underwood and Buffalo Bore?

I have heard that Glocks need some modifications (lone wolf or KMM barrel, spring, etc.), but what about the XD-Ms?

 

[Beckjhong]

I recently picked up an xdm. My purchase over Glock was motivated by reading that it handled hard cast loads stock better than the Glock. I’ve run a box of Underwood 220grain through it and the worst part was watching money disappear out the barrel that fast.


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[Beendare]

[QUOTE="A guy can get a lot higher on a semi auto to control muzzle flip over a revolver.
I have to be at 3 to 1 on accurate shots with the 10mm vs .44.

You get 3 10mm shots off to 1 shot of 44 mag?
[/QUOTE]

I didn't describe that well.
I haven't put both on my timer....but the point is I can not only get off more accurate shots faster with my Glocks [over a .44 revolver] but I can also track moving targets better. YMMV.
I practice 100 to 1 with the Glocks...no doubt thats part of it.

Watch an experienced shooter and the muzzles of a 10mm in slo mo....it hardly jumps.

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[Beendare]

I’ve often wondered about a lot of comments saying that a bear will be more “pissed off” if shot, and come at you harder.

Personally I know of a couple cases where a G Bear was sprayed...and then came back madder than before.


Then; There will be some cases with a firearm that the muzzle blast alone will deter them. That Fred Eichler vid is a good example.

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[Beendare]

I can see the benefit in using a Glock if that’s what you practice with for regular carry. However, I think it’s worth pointing out that the muscle memory likely won’t transfer to a backpack situation. I’ve never seen a great holster option for a Glock.

I would disagree with your second sentence. I draw and shoot the same...from the same location I practice all year shooting steel plate stuff.

I will try and shoot you a pick of the Kydex holster I modified for my Glock to fit on my pack while retaining the std belt loop.

To your comment about reholstering; If I'm not mistaken, this is the #1 time when LEO's and CCW folks accidentally shoot themselves.

The rule of thumb is draw fast but reholster deliberately and slow. Mostly those discharges are due to something getting trapped between the trigger and holster; Clothing, your finger, etc. I swipe with my off hand for clothing and such, tell myself "Finger off the trigger" and then glance down to make sure my holster is clear....no need to hurry.

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