120 TTSX Performance

[jkmola]

So after reading (mostly here) about the 7-08’s capabilities on elk with the right bullet, my sons and I decided we’d use the ttsx 120 with the idea it would serve double duty on both whitetail and elk. My son shot a decent buck last week with the bullet traveling about 3100. Deer was 120-130 yds and my son was prone - so slight upward angle. The bullet entered side of the neck about 10” below the head, and came to rest just under the skin in the off shoulder. The bullet mushroomed perfectly.

I’m a little shocked that it didn’t go through and through on a whitetail, and am now questioning whether it will be adequate on an elk. Any thoughts are appreciated

 

[Bearlodge10]

Maybe I am not picturing the correct path of the bullet on the deer. I picture that the bullet entered in front of the near shoulder and high, then traveled through the off shoulder (bone) to the hide. Perhaps that isn't the case and makes my next statement moot. Anyway, My mind says that is roughly 10-12" of penetration and through some pretty dense muscle and bone. I think that the bullet performed pretty well considering. My Dad would say "politicians, clowns and bullets do funny things," and I would chalk the performance up to shot placement and that scenario. I would think that the 120 grainer out of the 7mm-08 should work pretty well on elk given better shot placement. I say this as I assume that the shot taken was meant as a frontal shot and my experience with elk is that they have thicker hide, more hair and obviously more muscle. Given that, the same shot on an elk might not end up as cleanly as it did with this whitetail.
Short answer is that it is adequate. If anything, I would suggest a heavier bullet but also understand the performance of Barnes as well as the confidence one has or can get with a rifle that shoots accurately. To me the bullet performed as advertised and many sing the praises on elk when using a similar bullet weight and velocity in different calibers. If you have doubts, look to make changes next year and shoot a bunch to find what you and your rifle(s) like best. If elk is still the quarry for this year, don't push the limits on yardage, make a good shot and I bet you will like the dual animal load. Let us know how it goes.

 

[Jbehredt]

On elk with the right bullet...........and shot placement. Gotta have both parts of the equation in place on elk. No quartering to neck shots. Broadside, double lung you’ve got an elk killing combination in the 7-08 with that ttsx.

 

[doverpack12]

No other 7mm-08 bullet is going to penetrate better so if you have doubts it’s about the cartridge.
both bullet and cartridge are plenty capable when velocity is kept high (I would say 22-2300 fps or more). Shot placement is also key especially with smaller cartridges. Broadside only, no quartering shots on elk.

 

[Newtosavage]

I've carried a 7mm-08 for several elk hunts and I've taken a lot of deer with one. But out of an abundance of caution, I rebarreled a Savage LW Storm to 30-06 for this year's elk hunt just to put my mind at ease. It only weighs 4 oz. more than my 7mm-08, but it carries quite a bit more punch. I wanted the option to take quartering shots out to 500 yards if that's all I got. I still have no doubt about the 7mm-08's capability on elk - too much proof to deny that. But for a shot like you describe, on elk, I want the '06.

 

[5MilesBack]

Maybe I am not picturing the correct path of the bullet on the deer.

Me too. So the bullet entered the "side of the neck on an upward angle" and ended up "just under the hide on the offside shoulder"????

 

[jkmola]

Appreciate the comments. I left out some info I felt wasn’t really pertinent, but maybe it is. The buck was broadside, head angled just slightly to his left. My son ran approx 400 yds or so to get in position then went prone. Ground was level, buck standing, hence the slight upward trajectory. So breathing hard, adrenaline, etc. The shot was aimed for the lungs, but either one of two things - either he pulled the shot, or his scope got knocked off. I’m betting it was the first case, but we’re gonna shoot again in a couple days to verify the scope.

Either way, the bullet entered the side of the neck, and stopped just under the skin and forward the point of the off shoulder. The bullet just fell to the ground during skinning. So I have to think it deflected for some reason to end up where it did. I was just expecting that it would have went in one side and out the other. Maybe I just had some unreasonable expectations?

 

[sndmn11]

I would say it did a perfect job. I'd also venture to guess you would have had more penetration at a lower velocity/further distance. If I saw that expansion and result I would be happy. We actually shoot these and the 139gr GMX in factory loads and I wouldn't hesitate to send either at an elk.

 

[204guy]

I probably wouldn't try to push that bullet on a hard angle quartering away. There isn't a broadside or frontal angle I wouldn't smash that thing through though.

 

[SDHNTR]

Hornady makes a 139 gr GMX that would be a slight better choice for elk imo, assuming they shoot well.

 

[Kimber7man]

You have a sample size of 1. Shoot 9 more deer with that load and I bet you’ll be much more comfortable with it.

 

[doverpack12]

Hornady makes a 139 gr GMX that would be a slight better choice for elk imo, assuming they shoot well.

I have to disagree here. With Mono's speed is king, 20 grains of weight on the bullet doesn't mean anything. GMX is the hardest of the mono bullets to open up and being heavier the slower muzzle velocity is not worth the extra weight. I have no idea why Hornady makes that 139 factory ammo because it's not a good combo for anything over a few hundred yards. You can get yourself in trouble quickly with that bullet in a 7mm-08 and not realize you have gone past the opening speed of the bullet. Barnes advertises 1800 fps minimum impact and it's pretty widely accepted 2200 fps is a good performance minimum. GMX advertises 2000 fps minimum, not as much data on true performance minimum but it's over 2200 fps. Hornady advertises 2910 fps muzzle (i'd be shocked if it hit that) and 2360 fps at 300 yards (Absolute max performance window), 400 is 2190. I like gmx bullets and they worked well for me but in moderate size cartridges and mono bullets you have to step down in weight. 139 is close to top end for cup and core 7mm-08 bullet. The Barnes factory VorTx advertises 3005 fps and from what I have seen out of Barnes ammo I wouldn't doubt it hits that, seems very hot to me in the few factory offerings I have shot.

 

[Tod osier]

Just another anecdote, since that is all I have. I've shot quite a fair pile of deer with copper bullets, from 120 TSX up to 180 TTSX. The only one I can think of not passing entirely through a deer was a 180 grain TTSX out of a 35 Whelen on a very conventional shot through the body cavity (no major bone or muscle). This was a closer shot (less than 100 yards) and the bullet opened up beautifully and was against the far side hide. It makes sense that under conditions were there is excellent velocity to open the bullet maximally, is when you get the least penetration. I shot a caribou with the same bullet at several hundred yards and got complete pass through even though there was bone contact and the cross section of the animal was a lot larger. Again, just anecdotes, but in sum my experience is they tend to penetrate well. I'd stick with the 120s and shoot for more conventional shots.

 

[SDHNTR]

I have to disagree here. With Mono's speed is king, 20 grains of weight on the bullet doesn't mean anything. GMX is the hardest of the mono bullets to open up and being heavier the slower muzzle velocity is not worth the extra weight. I have no idea why Hornady makes that 139 factory ammo because it's not a good combo for anything over a few hundred yards. You can get yourself in trouble quickly with that bullet in a 7mm-08 and not realize you have gone past the opening speed of the bullet. Barnes advertises 1800 fps minimum impact and it's pretty widely accepted 2200 fps is a good performance minimum. GMX advertises 2000 fps minimum, not as much data on true performance minimum but it's over 2200 fps. Hornady advertises 2910 fps muzzle (i'd be shocked if it hit that) and 2360 fps at 300 yards (Absolute max performance window), 400 is 2190. I like gmx bullets and they worked well for me but in moderate size cartridges and mono bullets you have to step down in weight. 139 is close to top end for cup and core 7mm-08 bullet. The Barnes factory VorTx advertises 3005 fps and from what I have seen out of Barnes ammo I wouldn't doubt it hits that, seems very hot to me in the few factory offerings I have shot.

He was expressing displeasure with the penetrating ability of the 120 Ttsx, so I recommended a deeper penetrating option. I stand by that recommendation. I’ve killed piles of critters with both TTSX and GMX and they both work great.

 

[sneaky]

I've killed a ton of deer with both 120TTSX and 140TSX out of a 7-08. Wouldn't hesitate to use either on an elk. Would I shoot one quartering to me? Nope. But broadside that's a dead elk. Now, for deer, I'd shoot them no matter the angle lol.

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[AK Troutbum]

Several years ago my son killed a very large cow moose using that exact caliber/bullet (factory Barnes). Broadside double lung shot(although a little bit high), at about 50 yards. It didn’t fall right over, but it also didn’t require a second shot. I have no doubt that round would easily kill an elk given that it was a well-placed shot and not at an incredibly far distance.

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[sndmn11]

I have to disagree here. With Mono's speed is king, 20 grains of weight on the bullet doesn't mean anything. GMX is the hardest of the mono bullets to open up and being heavier the slower muzzle velocity is not worth the extra weight. I have no idea why Hornady makes that 139 factory ammo because it's not a good combo for anything over a few hundred yards. You can get yourself in trouble quickly with that bullet in a 7mm-08 and not realize you have gone past the opening speed of the bullet. Barnes advertises 1800 fps minimum impact and it's pretty widely accepted 2200 fps is a good performance minimum. GMX advertises 2000 fps minimum, not as much data on true performance minimum but it's over 2200 fps. Hornady advertises 2910 fps muzzle (i'd be shocked if it hit that) and 2360 fps at 300 yards (Absolute max performance window), 400 is 2190. I like gmx bullets and they worked well for me but in moderate size cartridges and mono bullets you have to step down in weight. 139 is close to top end for cup and core 7mm-08 bullet. The Barnes factory VorTx advertises 3005 fps and from what I have seen out of Barnes ammo I wouldn't doubt it hits that, seems very hot to me in the few factory offerings I have shot.

In a 20" Vanguard we get 2829fps for the Hornady GMX Superformance, and 2891 for the Barnes.. In a 20" preferred barrel Tikka, the former gets 2889. I haven't put the Barnes through that barrel yet.

 

[blacktail sniper]

shoot that exact bullet in my daughters 7/08ai at 3150 fps. We have actually had the opposite happen meaning seemed as if wasn't expanding fast enough. Double lung on a small blacktail at 160 yds ran at least 100 yds upon skinning and gutting I expected lungs to be jello looked like someone shot an arrow through it. Later that trip blew through both shoulders of a hog at 110 and same year an antelpe at 270 hog fell where he stood antelop took a few steps but it just seemed to hard. Once her recruiting is over and can hunt again im goin to load 131 HHs for it.

 

[jkmola]

You guys have given me lots to think about here. I think the comment that hits me the most is from Kimber7man - sample size is too small. I think the sons and I will be ok with this bullet, just need some more personal experience and confidence. Shot placement is always paramount - as explained the impact point was unintended. I think I also had the unrealistic expectation that NOTHING was gonna stop that bullet. Had to pull my head out of the clouds about that. Thanks for all the input, it's very much appreciated

 

[Newtosavage]

Curious how you're getting 3100 fps. out of a 7mm-08 with the 120 TTSX. Mine are running a 2900 with a moderate load and 20" barrel.

So far, my experience with this bullet on whitetails is exactly what I expected, which is to say the bullet does it job when I do mine.

As for Barnes bullets in the 7mm-08, I like the little 120 TTSX, but I'm far more impressed with the 139 LRX out of my rifle. Nearly the same velocity with much better downrange ballistics and a lower minimum velocity for expansion. If I take my 7mm-08 after elk, the 139 LRX will get the job. I'm reserving the 120 TTSX's for whitetails.