- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
- Messages
- 12,616
I didn’t know what to title this, but it’s about the why/how to get 1911’s that work without fuss. @Colby @PNWGATOR @mtnwrunner @ztc92 @Dioni A @Tommyhaak
I’ve gotten a bunch of questions about pistols, specifically 1911’s and 2011’s- how they work, are they reliable, etc. Quite a few have ansked about options for starting out that aren’t $2,000 plus. Most of my experience with 9mm versions has been guns that start at mid $2,000 and go up from there- in those I have a lot of experience.
Why 1911/2011’s?
Shootability. That’s pretty much it. Properly built 1911’s are the most shootable pistols on the planet when accuracy and speed are measured. That shootability combined with their relative thinness makes for an excellent combination of shooting and ease of carry. Right behind 1911’s are 2011’s.
The shootability isn’t primarily due to the trigger as pretty much every person believes- it’s due to the grip. The specific shape and size of the 1911 grip aids greatly in a proper consistent grip, and control during shooting.
History:
Historically the belief in most of the modern “gun” world has been that 1911’s are outdated, unreliable and expensive. Saying that 1911’s are outdated is weird- pistols aren’t electronics. Hitting things at speed are what duty/carry pistols should be measured by, and for that- nothing so far beats a well built 1911.
The other side is the belief that they are unreliable. Certainly in the past the common production Springfield’s, Kimber’s, RIA’s, etc. were a mixed bag out of the box. However, proper hand built guns were exceedingly reliable- they were just expensive.
But, it wasn’t hard to take most Springfield 45 auto full size 5” guns, tweak an extractor, change a recoil spring, use Trip Cobra mags and have a pistol that worked without fuss for 10,000 plus rounds. Their main issues were sub par MIM parts that would need replacing eventually.
9mm versions were a different matter. Up until recently 9mm 1911’s were more a novelty than a hard use serious pistol option. The know how to make them work reliably just wasn’t there unless you went to a semi custom Wilson, Nighthawk, etc., or a full custom.
However, the last few years has seen that change it seems. In the last couple of years I am aware of 5-6 Turkish 1911’s- specifically Tisas that have worked very well for relatively serious shooters with several thousand rounds a piece on the guns. Of those 5-6, only one needed an extractor adjustment out of the box to work. That they are all 9mm is way more surprising.
Being that I had little to no in depth personal experience with intry level 1911’s, and in the vein of education for others, and learning on my end- I decided to get one and see what it would take to make it a legitimate option.
Girsan MC1911s 9mm- $399
It’s a Government sized, 5” barrel 9mm with a rail.
First, this isn’t in any way any type of determination or statement that these guns are good. This is an experiment to see what it takes to get $400 1911’s to work correctly. I was looking for a Tisas 5” 9mm, but there were none in my area. A shop did have this Girsan 9mm, and overall it looked like all the modern Turkish 1911’s- that is the slide to frame fit, barrel lockup, bushing fit, and grip safety timing all seemed solid. So, I bought it.
This will be a rolling log of how the gun does, what I modify, and what I change. I will take it from its stock form, to what I would actually use and carry.
Range:
Dry cycling rounds through it the extractor seemed to have a bit too much tension on it.
First 10 rounds out of the gun at 25 yards.
Front sight needed to be filed down, and drifted to bring POI up and right.
Taped up the slide, filed the front down to the white dot, drifted it to the left a smidge.
Shot a few more and saw that the rounds land behind the white dot on the front sight. Taped those up, then the next ten rounds from 25 yards-
Went to 7 yards. Concealment.
Loaded 7-8 different mags up to check function. With Ed Brown 9 round mags ejection was quite erratic, which means extractor. On the second Ed Brown mag it had its first malfunction- a failure to go into battery. Cleared it, finished the mag, then unloaded and went to the truck.
In taking the pistol apart, the firing pin stop plate wouldn’t budge. I had to use a punch and hammer to get it out. Test fit showed that it was the extractor groove for the plate that was too tight. 20 seconds with a hand file and it fit correctly-
Standard 1911’s have an internal extractor that is spring steel. It is adjusted for tension by bending it in or out until correct. The extractor tension on this one looked fine, but the extractor groove where the rim slides was a bit shallow. I didn’t adjust yet.
Reassembled and-
The extractor groove issue showed up on the 5th magazine, and again the Ed Brown magazine highlighted another issue on the 7th magazine- the beginning of the chamber caught the case mouth and needed beveling slightly. Back to the truck. Made the extractor groove slightly deeper, and used a hand file to slightly bevel the edge of the chamber.
Here you can see on the left side of the chamber how sharp it is, and the mark left by the case mouths catching it-
A couple of swipes with the small file to break the edge-
Back together and-
Feeding and ejection were all fine. A sharp edge on the bottom of the thumb safety did start to aggregate my left hand, so taped it up and filed. Just broke the edge with a small file.
Before-
After-
After the last adjustment to the extractor and chamber, 350 rounds were fired from Ed Brown, Tripps Research, Wilson, Mecgar 9 rounds, and Mecgar 10 round mags with no further malfunctions.
I’ve gotten a bunch of questions about pistols, specifically 1911’s and 2011’s- how they work, are they reliable, etc. Quite a few have ansked about options for starting out that aren’t $2,000 plus. Most of my experience with 9mm versions has been guns that start at mid $2,000 and go up from there- in those I have a lot of experience.
Why 1911/2011’s?
Shootability. That’s pretty much it. Properly built 1911’s are the most shootable pistols on the planet when accuracy and speed are measured. That shootability combined with their relative thinness makes for an excellent combination of shooting and ease of carry. Right behind 1911’s are 2011’s.
The shootability isn’t primarily due to the trigger as pretty much every person believes- it’s due to the grip. The specific shape and size of the 1911 grip aids greatly in a proper consistent grip, and control during shooting.
History:
Historically the belief in most of the modern “gun” world has been that 1911’s are outdated, unreliable and expensive. Saying that 1911’s are outdated is weird- pistols aren’t electronics. Hitting things at speed are what duty/carry pistols should be measured by, and for that- nothing so far beats a well built 1911.
The other side is the belief that they are unreliable. Certainly in the past the common production Springfield’s, Kimber’s, RIA’s, etc. were a mixed bag out of the box. However, proper hand built guns were exceedingly reliable- they were just expensive.
But, it wasn’t hard to take most Springfield 45 auto full size 5” guns, tweak an extractor, change a recoil spring, use Trip Cobra mags and have a pistol that worked without fuss for 10,000 plus rounds. Their main issues were sub par MIM parts that would need replacing eventually.
9mm versions were a different matter. Up until recently 9mm 1911’s were more a novelty than a hard use serious pistol option. The know how to make them work reliably just wasn’t there unless you went to a semi custom Wilson, Nighthawk, etc., or a full custom.
However, the last few years has seen that change it seems. In the last couple of years I am aware of 5-6 Turkish 1911’s- specifically Tisas that have worked very well for relatively serious shooters with several thousand rounds a piece on the guns. Of those 5-6, only one needed an extractor adjustment out of the box to work. That they are all 9mm is way more surprising.
Being that I had little to no in depth personal experience with intry level 1911’s, and in the vein of education for others, and learning on my end- I decided to get one and see what it would take to make it a legitimate option.
Girsan MC1911s 9mm- $399
It’s a Government sized, 5” barrel 9mm with a rail.
First, this isn’t in any way any type of determination or statement that these guns are good. This is an experiment to see what it takes to get $400 1911’s to work correctly. I was looking for a Tisas 5” 9mm, but there were none in my area. A shop did have this Girsan 9mm, and overall it looked like all the modern Turkish 1911’s- that is the slide to frame fit, barrel lockup, bushing fit, and grip safety timing all seemed solid. So, I bought it.
This will be a rolling log of how the gun does, what I modify, and what I change. I will take it from its stock form, to what I would actually use and carry.
Range:
Dry cycling rounds through it the extractor seemed to have a bit too much tension on it.
First 10 rounds out of the gun at 25 yards.
Front sight needed to be filed down, and drifted to bring POI up and right.
Taped up the slide, filed the front down to the white dot, drifted it to the left a smidge.
Shot a few more and saw that the rounds land behind the white dot on the front sight. Taped those up, then the next ten rounds from 25 yards-
Went to 7 yards. Concealment.
Loaded 7-8 different mags up to check function. With Ed Brown 9 round mags ejection was quite erratic, which means extractor. On the second Ed Brown mag it had its first malfunction- a failure to go into battery. Cleared it, finished the mag, then unloaded and went to the truck.
In taking the pistol apart, the firing pin stop plate wouldn’t budge. I had to use a punch and hammer to get it out. Test fit showed that it was the extractor groove for the plate that was too tight. 20 seconds with a hand file and it fit correctly-
Standard 1911’s have an internal extractor that is spring steel. It is adjusted for tension by bending it in or out until correct. The extractor tension on this one looked fine, but the extractor groove where the rim slides was a bit shallow. I didn’t adjust yet.
Reassembled and-
The extractor groove issue showed up on the 5th magazine, and again the Ed Brown magazine highlighted another issue on the 7th magazine- the beginning of the chamber caught the case mouth and needed beveling slightly. Back to the truck. Made the extractor groove slightly deeper, and used a hand file to slightly bevel the edge of the chamber.
Here you can see on the left side of the chamber how sharp it is, and the mark left by the case mouths catching it-
A couple of swipes with the small file to break the edge-
Back together and-
Feeding and ejection were all fine. A sharp edge on the bottom of the thumb safety did start to aggregate my left hand, so taped it up and filed. Just broke the edge with a small file.
Before-
After-
After the last adjustment to the extractor and chamber, 350 rounds were fired from Ed Brown, Tripps Research, Wilson, Mecgar 9 rounds, and Mecgar 10 round mags with no further malfunctions.
