-20 sleeping bag help

[Adkhntr]

Hello,
I live in the Northern Adirondacks, where it can be freezing and snowing to raining back to hail within 30 minutes. This past fall I used my 15 degree back and was freezing, I went on an early spring backpacking trip with my 20 degree quilt and was chilled (got down to 17)....

long story short I’m tired of being cold and layering up in my sleeping bag for backcountry hunting and fishing trips and have decided to get a -20 bag. I usually sleep hot, am 6’ and range from 185-200 pounds depending on the time of year.

ive looked at big Agnes, feathered friends, western mountaineering, and am looking for a down semi lightweight sleeping bag, I understand that these types of bags are Not cheap, but I’m looking for a compromise between lightweight for backpacking, warmth, and cost. I’m very open to ideas or experiences or other options.

thank you!!

 

[westonadkins]

The north face is giving 50% off health care providers, so if you have access, you might consider the inferno.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Legend]

WM and feathered friends are awesome. Whatever you buy make sure it is 800 or higher down.

 

[Adkhntr]

Do you have any experience with the inferno?
QUOTE="westonadkins, post: 1620916, member: 28544"]
The north face is giving 50% off health care providers, so if you have access, you might consider the inferno.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
[/QUOTE]

 

[VernAK]

ADK,

I use a -30F bag in September when it's freezing at night and seldom approaches zero but has hit -20F. It's too much bag for some of the warmer nights unless the zipper goes down far enough to get my feet out. Then I can handle it. Might just be me, but whatever my feet can handle determines whether I'm warm or not.

 

[westonadkins]

Do you have any experience with the inferno?
QUOTE="westonadkins, post: 1620916, member: 28544"]
The north face is giving 50% off health care providers, so if you have access, you might consider the inferno.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[/QUOTE]

Personally I do not. Just got one myself because of the sale but have no nights in it yet (and no need to this time of year). My buddy has the zero and has been happy with it. Just giving you an option to consider that is friendly to the wallet and might meet your needs.

Here's a comparison between some of the high end bags with some data in the pic: https://sectionhiker.com/sectionhiker-gear-guide/10-best-winter-sleeping-bags/

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[GotDraw?]

It sucks being cold.

But if you want answers that are as on-point as possible, then try doing a better job of providing background.

1. What is the normal range of actual winter temperatures you hunt in? (don't give me windchill numbers)
2. How often do you actually hunt in 5 degree or -10 degree weather (again, not including wind chill)
3. What is your current 15 degree bag- manuf/model? What fill? Is is clean and well lofted, washed in the proper detergent?
4. What pad do you use in the winter? What is the R value?
5. What tent? Is it a 4 season tent with the fly bottom battened down?g Or a 3-season with a drafty fly bottom?
6. What do you wear to sleep in?
7. Do you use a bivvy bag?
8. Do you use a bag liner? What kind?

I would not be surprised if your pad has too low an R-rating for harsh winter camping and that your bag is not a conservatively rated 15 degree bag.

I have several bags, and one is an older -20 down bag. I have used it in 3 degree temps and was plenty warm; however, I've used that same bag at +20 degrees and sweat my ass off so badly I could not sleep.

-20 bags are far too hot (for me) for anything above 15 degrees (at most). And if you unzip partly to vent, then that part of you will be too cold and you won't sleep, while the rest of you will still be too hot to sleep. At 25-30 degrees, forget it, you have wasted your money while you sweat your ass off in that thing.

If you don't hunt (sleep) in 0 degree temps or below (w/o windchill), then you are overreacting to go the whole way to -20 w/bag selection and you will pay the price in the completely opposite direction of being far too hot. Not mention wasting a lot of money.

Suggestions:

• Make sure you use a top of the line, high R-value pad
• Buy a well made, conservatively rated 0 degree or 5 degree bag that covers the lower end of the realistic actual range of temperatures you hunt. Bag selection is always a trade-off if night time temperatures vary widely
• If windy and you're in a 3 season tent with a lot of air circulation, use a lightweight bivvy bag over your sleeping bag

Don't waste your money or your sweat on a -20 bag. I'll sell you mine if you want it so I can buy a conservative 5 degree bag. And I am not kidding.

Best,

JL

 

[Adkhntr]

Thank you for your more information depth assessment, here are some answers.

i have a mountain hardwear torch 15 with synthetic insulation (it was a gift), well aware that it is not the highest quality bag out there.

The temperatures without windchill can vary from 17-40 realistically. I was using an rei kingdom tent last year, but this year we have upgraded to a week outside 8 man tipi and stove, which is a game changer as ling as the stove is burning.

truthfully I’m only need a true cold weatherbag for 7-10 nights a year between fall and early spring, which is why i don’t necessarily need to break the bank.

my sleeping pad is a nemo tensor insulated. I usually wear long underwear and a hat to bed, occasionally socks.

what conservatively rated 0 bags would you reccomend/use? I have a 20 degree feathered friends quilt which I have been happy with for several years now.

 

[GotDraw?]

@Adkhntr

I use a Mountain Hardware 15 degree down bag, it is good to about that temperature as long as I use an R-5 or higher ground pad. I used to use a Big Agnes insulated pad, great name but useless pad in cold weather. I sold that pad and bought that Thermarest X-Therm R-5.7 (per Thermarest). That pad is also R-6.9 per 2020 lab testing. No matter, the actual R value, it is very warm and I love it.

Your pad is rated at R-3.5, simply put; it is not a winter pad and it won't offer enough R value at 15 degrees or lower temps, period. You are absolutely losing heat to the ground, which is further compromising your marginal 15 synthetic bag. Suggest you buy a Thermarest X-therm or an equivalent or higher R value pad from a competitor. Or you can add a closed cell foam pad on top of what you have when cold weather camping. There is a reason the X-therm is consistently top rated in testing and evaluations-- light, compact when stowed and warm when deployed in extreme cold.

In summary-

Your pad is inadequate and your bag is close but marginal in cold weather and too heavily impacted by the marginal pad's heat loss. Suggest you buy a conservatively rated 5 to 10 degree bag for colder nights, make sure it has a full length zipper so you can vent it some if needed. Keep your synthetic 15 degree bag for warmer hunting nights. As far as bag choices, Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends are always top rated.

Here are some great comparisons:

Outdoor Gear Labs WINTER Sleeping Bag Comparison

Outdoor Gear Lab SLEEPING PAD Comparison

Obviously, you'll need to choose a warmer model than the bags in the above comparison, but thought this link would help you.

Best,
JL

Thank you for your more information depth assessment, here are some answers.

i have a mountain hardwear torch 15 with synthetic insulation (it was a gift), well aware that it is not the highest quality bag out there.

The temperatures without windchill can vary from 17-40 realistically. I was using an rei kingdom tent last year, but this year we have upgraded to a week outside 8 man tipi and stove, which is a game changer as ling as the stove is burning.

truthfully I’m only need a true cold weatherbag for 7-10 nights a year between fall and early spring, which is why i don’t necessarily need to break the bank.

my sleeping pad is a nemo tensor insulated. I usually wear long underwear and a hat to bed, occasionally socks.

what conservatively rated 0 bags would you reccomend/use? I have a 20 degree feathered friends quilt which I have been happy with for several years now.

 

[Adkhntr]

JL,
Thank for your help!!! I have been in contact with feathered friends and am looking at an Ibus 0 degree bag and will take a look at the xtherm. I appreciate your help and experience!
-Alec

@Adkhntr

I use a Mountain Hardware 15 degree down bag, it is good to about that temperature as long as I use an R-5 or higher ground pad. I used to use a Big Agnes insulated pad, great name but useless pad in cold weather. I sold that pad and bought that Thermarest X-Therm R-5.7 (per Thermarest). That pad is also R-6.9 per 2020 lab testing. No matter, the actual R value, it is very warm and I love it.

Your pad is rated at R-3.7 or so, and simply put; it is not a winter pad and it won't offer enough R value at 15 degrees or lower temps, period. You are absolutely losing heat to the ground, which is further compromising your marginal 15 synthetic bag. Suggest you buy a Thermarest X-therm or an equivalent or higher R value pad from a competitor. Or you can add a closed cell foam pad on top of what you have when cold weather camping. There is a reason the X-therm is consistently top rated in testing and evaluations-- light, compact when stowed and warm when deployed in extreme cold.

In summary-

Your pad is inadequate and your bag is close but marginal in cold weather and too heavily impacted by the marginal pad's heat loss. Suggest you buy a conservatively rated 5 to 10 degree bag for colder nights, make sure it has a full length zipper so you can vent it some if needed. Keep your synthetic 15 degree bag for warmer hunting nights. As far as bag choices, Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends are always top rated.

Here are some great comparisons:

Outdoor Gear Labs Sleeping Bag Comparison

Outdoor Gear Lab Sleeping Pad Comparison

Obviously, you'll need to choose a warmer model than the bags in the above comparison, but thought this link would help you.

Best,
JL

 

[GotDraw?]

@Adkhntr - Check your PM's, I sent you a note.
JL

JL,
Thank for your help!!! I have been in contact with feathered friends and am looking at an Ibus 0 degree bag and will take a look at the xtherm. I appreciate your help and experience!
-Alec

 

[GotDraw?]

@Adkhntr

Another forum member posted these links, I suggest you check them out. Great info, you may just want to buy a 30 degree 850 or 900 fill quilt and use it inside your synthetic bag, then also buy a closed cell pad and layer your current pad on top:

Enlightened Equipment- Layering Quilts for Warmth

Enlightened Equipment- How to choose or combine sleeping pads

Best,

JL

 

[Adkhntr]

thanks for the links, they are super helpful. Thus far I upgraded my sleeping pad, Moosejaw had a great deal on a neoair xtherm for the time being, and I am planning on getting a 0 degree bag at some point. That article and your idea was great though as I already have a 20 degree down quilt and can use that with the synthetic bag and the warmer pad, which should work for the foreseeable future.

@Adkhntr

Another forum member posted these links, I suggest you check them out. Great info, you may just want to buy a 30 degree 850 or 900 fill quilt and use it inside your synthetic bag, then also buy a closed cell pad and layer your current pad on top:

Enlightened Equipment- Layering Quilts for Warmth

Enlightened Equipment- How to choose or combine sleeping pads

Best,

JL

 

[Corey Paulsen (teamkabob)]

It sucks being cold.

But if you want answers that are as on-point as possible, then try doing a better job of providing background.

1. What is the normal range of actual winter temperatures you hunt in? (don't give me windchill numbers)
2. How often do you actually hunt in 5 degree or -10 degree weather (again, not including wind chill)
3. What is your current 15 degree bag- manuf/model? What fill? Is is clean and well lofted, washed in the proper detergent?
4. What pad do you use in the winter? What is the R value?
5. What tent? Is it a 4 season tent with the fly bottom battened down?g Or a 3-season with a drafty fly bottom?
6. What do you wear to sleep in?
7. Do you use a bivvy bag?
8. Do you use a bag liner? What kind?

I would not be surprised if your pad has too low an R-rating for harsh winter camping and that your bag is not a conservatively rated 15 degree bag.

I have several bags, and one is an older -20 down bag. I have used it in 3 degree temps and was plenty warm; however, I've used that same bag at +20 degrees and sweat my ass off so badly I could not sleep.

-20 bags are far too hot (for me) for anything above 15 degrees (at most). And if you unzip partly to vent, then that part of you will be too cold and you won't sleep, while the rest of you will still be too hot to sleep. At 25-30 degrees, forget it, you have wasted your money while you sweat your ass off in that thing.

If you don't hunt (sleep) in 0 degree temps or below (w/o windchill), then you are overreacting to go the whole way to -20 w/bag selection and you will pay the price in the completely opposite direction of being far too hot. Not mention wasting a lot of money.

Suggestions:

• Make sure you use a top of the line, high R-value pad
• Buy a well made, conservatively rated 0 degree or 5 degree bag that covers the lower end of the realistic actual range of temperatures you hunt. Bag selection is always a trade-off if night time temperatures vary widely
• If windy and you're in a 3 season tent with a lot of air circulation, use a lightweight bivvy bag over your sleeping bag

Don't waste your money or your sweat on a -20 bag. I'll sell you mine if you want it so I can buy a conservative 5 degree bag. And I am not kidding.

Best,

JL

Thanks for the tips

 

[Rokwiia]

Good comments from everyone. In -30F weather, there is no room for error. I'd buy the best gear I could find regardless the price.

I'll echo the suggestion of starting with a good pad such as the ExPed Downmat XP 9. As far as a bag is concerned, I'd look no further than Western Mountaineering.